Why Carb and non OD a Gen 3?

[standup303]

I have always been curious about doing a gen 3 swap but I feel majority I see ditch the factory injection for a carb or throttle body and slap in a 727? Isn’t the whole point of swapping to a newer gen setup to have easier to tune fuel injection and an overdrive transmission?

 

[DionR]

I have always been curious about doing a gen 3 swap but I feel majority I see ditch the factory injection for a carb or throttle body and slap in a 727? Isn’t the whole point of swapping to a newer gen setup to have easier to tune fuel injection and an overdrive transmission?

I agree, seems like tossing out several of the advantages of a G3 to not use the EFI and OD.

But I think people see the HP of the new Hemi and want that, without the added complexity of EFI or an electronic OD trans.

Add that as far as I know, the only way to run a carb is to use a 6.1 or an '08 and older 5.7 as there isn't an ignition box that will run the later 5.7/6.4 at least with the stock crank tone wheel. So that also removes the option for VVT. Most people seem to run a big enough cam that VVT has to be locked out anyway, but (to me) VVT is one of the reasons I want to run a G3.

And running a carb also means losing the long runner intake and potentially SRV tech.

But even with all that, they still have the advantages of good cylinder heads, higher compression, coil on plug and a crank position sensor instead of a distributor, plus a stiffer block.

 

[toolmanmike]

I have always been curious about doing a gen 3 swap but I feel majority I see ditch the factory injection for a carb or throttle body and slap in a 727? Isn’t the whole point of swapping to a newer gen setup to have easier to tune fuel injection and an overdrive transmission?

It's easier. You don't need a computer to run the carb or the transmission.

 

[MMissile]

No reason to really go gen 3, if you don't take advantage of all the tech.

 

[RustyRatRod]

I guess it all depends on what people want. We don't all drive yellow cars, for example.

 

[toolmanmike]

No reason to really go gen 3, if you don't take advantage of all the tech.

True that. How's the aftermarket technology nowdays.ANyone make a computer to make it work so it's more plug and play?

 

[DionR]

True that. How's the aftermarket technology nowdays.ANyone make a computer to make it work so it's more plug and play?

Holley's stuff is as close as I can think to plug and play. SRV/VVT control, self tuning and everything.

There might be better options, just the first option I thought of.

 

[DionR]

But even with all that, they still have the advantages of good cylinder heads, higher compression, coil on plug and a crank position sensor instead of a distributor, plus a stiffer block.

To be clear, the above advantages are in comparison to the typical SB/BB. Certainly a motor could be built with most or all of those, but I was referring to what most people have in their cars or would be buying to swap in that isn't a crate motor of some type.

 

[RustyRatRod]

True that. How's the aftermarket technology nowdays.ANyone make a computer to make it work so it's more plug and play?

All I have to do is go to any dealership service department and see the hoards of cars in for computer diagnosis and such. No thanks.

 

[DionR]

All I have to do is go to any dealership service department and see the hoards of cars in for computer diagnosis and such. No thanks.

Don't forget that most of those cars have multiple computers and systems, most of which can put the car down if something isn't right without even being related to the drivetrain. If you narrowed it down to only those with PCM issues, I bet it would be pretty small. Not saying it isn't possible, just that it might not be as bad as you think.

Hardly anyone is doing a full wiring harness swap into an old car anymore. I'm going to run mine on an OEM PCM and might add the ABS module to get a vehicle speed reading but beyond that I don't need the BCM, radio, bluetooth module, TCM, ect.

To be clear, I do plan to build up an Arduino to put the CC messages on the bus so I can run my old school column switches and still have the PCM control the vehicle speed like it would in an LX/LC. So that is another module, and certainly an additional failure point. Nice thing is, if it does fail, it doesn't brick the car.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Don't forget that most of those cars have multiple computers and systems, most of which can put the car down if something isn't right without even being related to the drivetrain. If you narrowed it down to only those with PCM issues, I bet it would be pretty small. Not saying it isn't possible, just that it might not be as bad as you think.

Hardly anyone is doing a full wiring harness swap into an old car anymore. I'm going to run mine on an OEM PCM and might add the ABS module to get a vehicle speed reading but beyond that I don't need the BCM, radio, bluetooth module, TCM, ect.

To be clear, I do plan to build up an Arduino to put the CC messages on the bus so I can run my old school column switches and still have the PCM control the vehicle speed like it would in an LX/LC. So that is another module, and certainly an additional failure point. Nice thing is, if it does fail, it doesn't brick the car.

You're perhaps right, but I didn't mean to just limit my comments about computers only. I was including electronics in general.

 

[standup303]

Continuing my 440 build w/ Sniper EFI and Gearvendors on the 727 doesn’t seem like a bad route once you start talking about all the computer tech on the gen 3! I think they’re cool but also seems like a whole new realm of tech I have no clue about.

 

[toolmanmike]

Multiple computers that all work together.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Multiple computers that all work together SUCK.

I fixed it.

 

[65rbdodge]

I’m as old school as they come. I’ve been resistant to FI and electronically controlled motors for a long time. About a year ago I bought a blown up(valve seat) 2008 5.7 hemi for $125. I tore it down and rebuilt it. I’ve educated myself about these motors with books and YouTube videos. I find all the technology in them very interesting, VVT and and the intakes that change their runner length-cool stuff! I’m putting this motor in a 96 2wd std. cab Dakota. I’m going with Holley for the intake and controller. Going with a 46re transmission. I’ve since bought a complete 2006 jeep commander with a 5.7(ran and drove) for $200. I pulled the motor and it’s in my shop now waiting for it forever home.

 

[DionR]

I’m as old school as they come. I’ve been resistant to FI and electronically controlled motors for a long time. About a year ago I bought a blown up(valve seat) 2008 5.7 hemi for $125. I tore it down and rebuilt it.... I’m putting this motor in a 96 2wd std. cab Dakota.

Just "finished" swapping a 5.9 into my '91 Dakota 4WD, but I so wanted to put a 5.7 in there. If I didn't have my Duster or was looking for a project, a 2WD SCSB Dakota to G3 swap would be high on my list. Very cool.

What are you doing for exhaust? I wish Holley still sold the headers.

 

[65rbdodge]

Using their shorty headers

 

[DionR]

Using their shorty headers

Nice. They don't sell them anymore.

I am glad I was able to get a set for my A-Body swap before they pulled them from the market. Only headers I can find now are for 72-74 D100's.

 

[65rbdodge]

I had the long tube ones on order from summit for many months. Then one day they refunded my money without explanation. I called and they said they were discontinued. That’s when I ordered the shorties. Sorry to hijack the post

Where I’m at now with the motor-

 

[392heminut]

I cruise my car around town, drive it in parades, and drive it to car shows within a two hour drive of where I live. Any further, I'll trailer it and I have no intentions of doing the Hot Rod Magazine Power Tour. Why would I want to go to all the trouble and expense of fitting some kind of OD trans in my Cuda when it already had a 727 in it?

As for carb over F.I., when I did my swap back in 2008 there wasn't much available other than modifying the factory stuff (expensive) and upgrading the fuel system to support the F.I. (more expense). I already had carbs, which I have a lot of experience tuning, and the Mopar Performance 4 bbl intake was WAY cheaper than F.I.

I was a cop with kids on a limited budget when I did my swap, I didn't have the cubic dollars that people doing this swap nowadays seem to have! I also wanted a hemi in my car and again, I couldn't afford a 426 Hemi.

I have no regrets about the way I did my swap and have enjoyed the heck out of driving my car for the last 15 years! I definitely haven't missed having F.I. or OD!

 

[Map63Vette]

I was in a similar boat with money at the time when I did my 5.7 swap something like 10+ years ago now. Firstly I was a kid in grad school at the time, so I didn't really have cash to do a full fuel system upgrade to high pressure the way I'd want to do it (in tank pump). Secondly, a lot of the swap parts just weren't available back when I did it. XV and Indy were the only companies making carb style manifolds at the time and TTI was pretty much the only game in town for headers. Admittedly the MSD Hemi ignition controller wasn't cheap, but my engine came with no electronics, so I had to buy something regardless. A carb setup was the cheapest way to get the engine running to start with, and the modern design of the 3G Hemi had way more potential for power and upgrades along with driveability and efficiency in the long run. I've since upgraded to a Megasquirt fuel injection setup, but that was mostly because I scored a huge deal on the setup used. Definitely easier to tune for me personally, but I also like playing with tech.

 

[harrisonm]

Just "finished" swapping a 5.9 into my '91 Dakota 4WD, but I so wanted to put a 5.7 in there. If I didn't have my Duster or was looking for a project, a 2WD SCSB Dakota to G3 swap would be high on my list. Very cool.

What are you doing for exhaust? I wish Holley still sold the headers.

I had a 98 Dakota Sport that I was slowly turning into an awesome street machine. It was a 4 cyl 5 speed, and the AC blew ice cold. I did a lot of bodywork to it and sprayed it with a stunning black paint job. Then I powder coated the wheels and put on new tires. A new V8 was next, and then the ***** across the street backed into it SOOO hard, it was totaled. And it was not even close to being directly across from her driveway. It was at least 2-3 car lengths up the street. All I had lets to do was the engine/driveline and the interior. Damn, I loved that truck. Here is a picture before the ***** backed into it.

 

[RustyRatRod]

I cruise my car around town, drive it in parades, and drive it to car shows within a two hour drive of where I live. Any further, I'll trailer it and I have no intentions of doing the Hot Rod Magazine Power Tour. Why would I want to go to all the trouble and expense of fitting some kind of OD trans in my Cuda when it already had a 727 in it?

As for carb over F.I., when I did my swap back in 2008 there wasn't much available other than modifying the factory stuff (expensive) and upgrading the fuel system to support the F.I. (more expense). I already had carbs, which I have a lot of experience tuning, and the Mopar Performance 4 bbl intake was WAY cheaper than F.I.

I was a cop with kids on a limited budget when I did my swap, I didn't have the cubic dollars that people doing this swap nowadays seem to have! I also wanted a hemi in my car and again, I couldn't afford a 426 Hemi.

I have no regrets about the way I did my swap and have enjoyed the heck out of driving my car for the last 15 years! I definitely haven't missed having F.I. or OD!

I was on the fence about the OD swap, but I am going ahead with it pretty soon on Vixen. The world class Rustang T5 will be a good match for the slant 6 and will allow me to cruise nicely. I completely get what you're saying though. It took me a while to get to where I am in my decision process.

 

[DionR]

I cruise my car around town, drive it in parades, and drive it to car shows within a two hour drive of where I live. Any further, I'll trailer it and I have no intentions of doing the Hot Rod Magazine Power Tour. Why would I want to go to all the trouble and expense of fitting some kind of OD trans in my Cuda when it already had a 727 in it?

Really good point. Comes down to what people want out of their rig.

I live 30 minutes from the "big town" of Spokane, Washington so almost any use of my car involves at least 30 minutes at 60+ mph. That's certainly within the two hour drive window, but it's enough for me to say I want OD. Even if I lived in a bigger town and ever got on the freeway, or maybe even a main road that had a speed limit of 50+ mph, I would probably want OD. But that's me, I just don't like the motor spinning at 3K rpm. Thankfully I am not everybody, that would be boring.

I might add that another "for me" reason is mileage. The better the fuel economy an OD gives means that I can enjoy the car more and drive it further. Not everyone has that limitation, and it is somewhat self imposed, but it is still a limitation for me. For some, economy is pointless because 10 mpg isn't much better than the 8 mpg the car gets without OD, making OD kind of pointless. And some rides are rough enough that driving it more than 30 minutes at a time is unpleasant, so why would they want to drive it more anyway. And for some the point isn't to drive it, it's to go fast or look good, all valid. But my goal is to make my Duster something I can enjoy as much as I can which means driving it all that I can.

To each their own.

 

[DionR]

I had a 98 Dakota Sport that I was slowly turning into an awesome street machine. It was a 4 cyl 5 speed, and the AC blew ice cold. I did a lot of bodywork to it and sprayed it with a stunning black paint job. Then I powder coated the wheels and put on new tires. A new V8 was next, and then the ***** across the street backed into it SOOO hard, it was totaled. And it was not even close to being directly across from her driveway. It was at least 2-3 car lengths up the street. All I had lets to do was the engine/driveline and the interior. Damn, I loved that truck. Here is a picture before the ***** backed into it.

View attachment 1716147492

That sucks. Sorry.