Toyota (again).

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THe main problem, IMNSHO, is the computerization of vehicles. The cars nowadays have more computer power that the first moon mission had.

Today's cars have anywhere from 20-40 microprocessors monitoring everything from speed to how many times you fart into the seats. And, these microprocessors all "talk" to each other. I've been working in the computer industry for 30+ years, and when microprocessors that are supposed to talk to each other get out of sync, crazy **** happens.

The push button starts, oh yeah, nice feature, but the hard shutdown of the vehicle by turning off the key is removed, and you count on the "3 second" hold working. Again, by holding the button for 3 seconds, you are signaling a microprocessor to go into shutdown mode, and if the processor has gotten into a mode where it ignores the command, you are screwed.

Go back a number of years, the transmissions were controlled by fluid and vacuum and a valve body. The engines, although less efficient, were controlled from the distributor and some adjustments.

Hell, I had an unwanted acceleration problem in the first car I ever owned, a 1966 Corvair my Aunt gave to me. Problem was, it was 6 or 7 miles before I noticed the car was trying to accelerate, that 110 hp car couldn't get out of it's own way, but it laid down one helluva smoke screen, in the process.

Back to computerization, every time they add another "feature", such as parallel parking itself, curing lane drift, braking when it senses you are too close to another vehicle, that is one more "feature" to malfunction, and they WILL malfunction. And when it happens, I wouldn't want to be the car maker with the next fatal foul-up.

FF
 
the67fish said:
Generally when you turn the key off it locks the steering columb, 99.99999% of women drivers wouldnt think or know to turn the key off anyway and all can drive quite fine while on the phone. This thing has been swept under the floor mats since way back in 2003, it just takes a high body count to get the ball rolling. Looks like now its gonna be the electronics and Im sure Toyota dont wanna change out electronics on 8.5 million cars, whats a few deaths (and counting) huh?
Click to expand...

Glad I'm part of that .1%. Especially since I drive a big truck.
y-whew.gif
 
I'm gonna get met a bumper sticker for my Dodge that says "MY RECALL NEVER KILLED ANYONE" LOL
 
Just a quick thought. I hate ABS, but wouldn't ABS prevent you from being able to stop a vehicle with throttle open?

Grant
 
stroked 340 said:
Toylete S.U.C.K....i'd would NEVER own a foreign piece of crap,i'd walk before ever owning one,then again i don't need to my Ford truck has been very good to me since bought in '02 and has never failed me,and it doesn't have unwanted accelleration and the brakes DO work.. oh and the driveshaft is'nt falling out:-D:-D
Click to expand...

You may own one?

Possible locations your F-150 may have been built.

Trucks are built in Oakville, Ontario; Dearborn, Michigan; Claycomo, Missouri; Louisville, Kentucky; St. Paul, Minnesota; Edison, New Jersey; and in Mexico, Malaysia, Vietnam, Argentina and England.
 
scuba0331 said:
You may own one?

Possible locations your F-150 may have been built.

Trucks are built in Oakville, Ontario; Dearborn, Michigan; Claycomo, Missouri; Louisville, Kentucky; St. Paul, Minnesota; Edison, New Jersey; and in Mexico, Malaysia, Vietnam, Argentina and England.
Click to expand...

My Ford was built right in KENTUCKY U.S.A.!!!..and i don't own an f-150..Toyotas still S.U.C.K.!!!
 
FF, I too work in the IT field and love tech gadgetry.
HOWEVER
I drive a 73 /6 duster with manual brakes, windows, door locks, etc.
I'll have to agree with the comments about adding computers to cars. Ever had a pc "blue screen" on you?
What happens when your car blue screens?
Something is SEVERELY wrong if someone can't be "troubled" with starting a car with a key! And don't get me started on power locks..."Now instead of pushing the lock down, all you have to do is push on this other thing that sends a signal to the solenoid to move the lock mechanism"....RIIIIght

Reminds me of star trek 4 when Scotty is told he has to use a keyboard.... "How quaint" ....

This thread did prompt me to ask my wife what she would do if the vehicle she was driving suddenly accelerated as if the throttle was stuck open.
Her response was.............almost a minute went by....then she said, hit the brakes...
I was astounded that my wife ( smart lady by the way ) took so long to answer the question, now add panic, traffic, and the time it takes to grasp the situation.....possibly deadly conclusion.


More food for thought today:

"On Tuesday, James E. Lentz III, the president of Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A., told the House Energy and Commerce Committee that the prescribed repairs might “not totally” solve the problem. In response to a question, Mr. Lentz said that Toyota was still examining the sudden acceleration problem, including the possibility that the electronics system might be at fault."

Taken from:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/25/business/global/25toyota.html
 
I`ve got to say that stroked340`s hatred of Toyota does show a certain amount of patriotism that is admirable. If we had all showed that dedication to American product in the 70`s then the manufacturers may have gone a separate way and the world would now be praising us for our cars. Unfortunately the Japanese had better foresight and beat us at our own game when our apathy was at it`s zenith. That`s why we`re where we are today and that`s why Toyota is the powerhouse it is.
 
I think the real problem is that to many people have drivers licenses that dont really know how to drive! once around the block and parallel park in a huge space are all that you need to get a license. we need to improve our standards for getting and keeping a drivers license, including what to do in an emergency. the sad fact is most american driver could not pass a driving test in countrys like germany or japan, and that is a disgrace! if anything our driving tests should be the equal of any other country in the world . there is no way we should settle for less, I mean we are not even second best, and that is not acceptable!
 
Longgone said:
Unfortunately the Japanese had better foresight and beat us at our own game when our apathy was at it`s zenith. That`s why we`re where we are today and that`s why Toyota is the powerhouse it is.
Click to expand...

You're right they did beat us at our own Game. Dr. Demming was intrumental in the 1950's in helping the Japanese with their management style.

If you read Dr. Demming's book you will understand that the Americans resisted TQM from the beginning. It wasn't until the 1980's when Ford realized they needed to do something to compete and Dr. Demming was able to help Ford become profitable again by helping change the management style.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming
 
"Toyota moving forward..even if you don't want to"..

"Toyota moving forward..just don't try to stop cause' you won't:..lol...
 
IMO foreign makes reputation as "better" is irrational. it not like the honda/toyota/kia what ever dealer doesn't have service bays. When the narrative in the magazines say that everything foreign is of better quality because they like the way it "drives" or handles or style of driving, is completely bogus subjective points. I don't think i have ever read a decent ***objective*** review. Objective metrics like Initial quality is also generally crap unless its WAY past the norm. Who cares if 10 per 1000k v 15 per 1000 units had to have some warranty work. its called a warranty for a reason. AND you have no idea about what the issues where. Was it deadly issue, or something simple like flaking lettering when I pressure washed it too close. What REALLY matters is repair after warranty... So reputation and quality can also be defined as better PR handling... at least until the wheels come off. Having worked at a dealership, you should SEE the crap that gets charged to "warranty" for pr/sales reasons, when it was actually dumb user. I wont even get into defect metrics of QC...

The point "Quality" is subjective to whoever is defining it by THEIR own expectation. Even "objective" quality is subjective due to the definitions and methodology used to report it. and no its NOT ever an apples to apples comparison. To ME i want a report of frequent repairs/costs for parts for 125K miles -250k miles. Do those smug foreign swooning reporters list those metrics? nope, new cars pay for advertising! Is it still a quality vehicle if i have a wheel bearing start growling after 189K miles? Generally Yes! i can live with that expectation..

Would i put my wife in a Honda/Toyota/Kia minivan with 130K miles? Heck no.

Ok fine i'll concede that i **may** have good luck with cars because all the issues where shaken out before it got to me.... So Quality to me is strictly cost/ benefit.

Disclaimer: I'm a software testing/QC/systems engineer type. I have only ever bought 1 brand new car, a 2003 Chrysler. I don't own anything with less than 130K miles, i haven't EVER owned a car with <100K miles except for that new 2003 Chrysler. I commute 37K miles per year in a car with 189K miles.
 
player1up said:
FF, I too work in the IT field and love tech gadgetry.
HOWEVER
I drive a 73 /6 duster with manual brakes, windows, door locks, etc.
I'll have to agree with the comments about adding computers to cars. Ever had a pc "blue screen" on you?
What happens when your car blue screens?
Something is SEVERELY wrong if someone can't be "troubled" with starting a car with a key! And don't get me started on power locks..."Now instead of pushing the lock down, all you have to do is push on this other thing that sends a signal to the solenoid to move the lock mechanism"....RIIIIght

Reminds me of star trek 4 when Scotty is told he has to use a keyboard.... "How quaint" ....

This thread did prompt me to ask my wife what she would do if the vehicle she was driving suddenly accelerated as if the throttle was stuck open.
Her response was.............almost a minute went by....then she said, hit the brakes...
I was astounded that my wife ( smart lady by the way ) took so long to answer the question, now add panic, traffic, and the time it takes to grasp the situation.....possibly deadly conclusion.


More food for thought today:

"On Tuesday, James E. Lentz III, the president of Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A., told the House Energy and Commerce Committee that the prescribed repairs might “not totally” solve the problem. In response to a question, Mr. Lentz said that Toyota was still examining the sudden acceleration problem, including the possibility that the electronics system might be at fault."

Taken from:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/25/business/global/25toyota.html
Click to expand...

As far as computerization, the mechanic where I get all of my non-a body work done was telling me of a car, can't remember which one, that the 3rd brake light(middle in rear window) wasn't working, so the vehicle didn't pass inspection. They tried a new light bulb(or array) which didn't work, and started checking wiring.

It came down that they finally called somewhere for some tech support, cause all the wiring seemed to check out, and they were told that there was, the equivalent of, a firmware upgrade for the car's computer systems for this exact problem. They were able to download the update to a laptop, then, using their computer setup, upload it into the car, and, viola, the light was back in operation.

Where's it all going to stop???

FF
 
whats next? are you going to need to clear the "flat tire code" from the computer after putting on the spare before it will let you drive?
 
I think Audi has started this already, but when the car is shut off, the computer reels out the rear brakes to lock the car in place, automatic e-brake. Problem is, when the car needs new brakes, the mechanic has to have the apparatus to tell the computer to unclamp the brakes from the rotors, or else the brakes cannot be replaced. Supposed cost for the software/interface to an indy shop, ~$25k.

FF
 
even if they threw in a helicopter full of beer and a dozen dancing girls I still wouldn't buy a new car
 
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