Counterfeit Cars on FABO!!!

Demon 408 said

Counterfeit Cars on FABO!!!
Got your attention? Good, read on, because they are among us here on FABO.

Within the last month I’ve encountered two individuals who either admitted to owning and considering swapping VINs or have already swapped VINs. The later actually has advertised his car for sale; thankfully it did not sell on FABO. Both are still active here, so beware. And to the guy that has actually swapped VINs, I’m watching and waiting for you to sell here or on EBay. You know who you are. If you can prove you are legal, then I will apologize here in public. If you harass me with PMs, I’ll call you out here in this public forum.

I know all of you are going to ask me who these perpetrators are, if you want to know, click on my Avatar (left hand side) and view my profile. Click “statistics” and then click “find all posts by Demon 408”. You only need to go back to March 19, 2011 to see both.

I started this thread because I’m really sick of what is happening to our hobby and I wanted to educate the unknowing and warn those who are buying, or selling, cars. One particular issue that pisses me off is FABO members buying a “Duster” and turning it into a “Demon”. I know some of you will disagree (flame on), but if you want a Demon, buy one. And if you are swapping VINs and titles to make the Duster a Demon…may you rot in hell. Okay, I know, you “like Demons” better than you do Dusters and there are more Duster out there, so why not? Well, maybe you are honest and you will represent that 71 Demon as what it really is, a 71 Duster. But, then you sell the car and the next owner is not as honest. Buyer and seller beware.

You may disagree with the following definitions but you need to be familiar with them:

VIN: A VIN is a Vehicle Identification Number; every A-Body has one. The early VINs up through 1965 had 10 digits in the number. The 1966 and up have 13 digits in the number. Basically, VIN tells you the model, engine, if it is a Dodge or Plymouth and what plant assembled the car. The key to an original car is the VIN.

Original “numbers matching” car: An original numbers matching car is a car that has all its correct parts, to include motor, transmission, and interior. The motor, transmission and all other parts match the VIN serial number and paint is original color. The original VIN, data plate and title remain with the car. If the car was advertised for sale the seller would list it as original “numbers matching” car.

Original “numbers correct” car: An original numbers correct car is a car that has all its correct parts, to include motor, transmission, and interior. Motor and transmission may not match the VIN but they have the correct date code. Paint may be a different color, but is a color that was available for that year make and model. The original VIN, data plate and title remain with the car. If the car was advertised for sale the seller would list it as original “numbers correct” car with a color change.

Clones: A clone car is a car that looks like a muscle car but wasn’t built as one. For example, A 71 slant-6 Demon with a 340 in it and all of the exterior 340 badges would be a clone of a 71 Demon 340. But there would be no attempt to pass it off as a Demon 340. The original VIN, data plate and title that reflected the slant 6 would remain with the car. If the car was advertised for sale the seller would make it clear it was a clone.

Resto-mod: This car uses newer parts to increase performance and safety, but may or may not attempt to look like a clone (see above). The original VIN, data plate and title reflecting the original car would remain with the car. If the car was advertised for sale the seller would make it clear it was a resto-mod.

Counterfeits: A counterfeit car is similar to a clone (or even resto-mod). However, an attempt has been made to hide this fact and owner tries to pass it off, or advertises it for sale, as an original. WARNING: Changing or duplicating the VIN on your car is a federal offense. Federal offense means you will be someone’s *****. If you have a VIN then it must have a legal history…period.

To the honest FABO members out there, no harm no foul.

Peace out.

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I am sorry but I believe There is several ways to look at this. First is the feds are trying to deter people / thiefs from putting other vin's from clean cars onto Hot cars. Or in the past Owners insuring there High HP. V-8 or Hemi powered car as a as a /6 to lower there rates. I've seen nation TV shows where Repopped bodies being made and the vin's are used from a existing early car (Camaro). Or a Hemi Charger That was Totally Shot every peice was unusable. That car was totally rebuilt around the vin. Even to the point where one of the vins was restamped. Just to save a one of one car and this was nationally broadcasted and approve by Gallen. How about the give away car at Carlise years back 1969 Coronet R/T Hemi. It was cloned from my friends Drag car using his Vin It was White with a red Stripe.They advertised it as such. thousands showed to win that car. I didn't see anyone complain until after it was given out. But then and only then Whiners that Had tickets that didn't win came forward and said This wasn't right. It was then vin'ed using a coronet 500 vin that didn't say Hemi Well that was OK because he was'nt increasing the count of the rare hemi owners cars. This same car was resold at Barret Jackson, and speaking of which how many cars come across that block that are Clones nationally advertised.

Heres what I think we have here. There are those who have spent alot of money on cars because the Demand is there but the supply is not. They are totally jealous of the person who has the ability to build or rebuild a car they want that just isn't available anymore, and they do it for pennies on the dollar of what others pay. It makes an original worth less because of the supply, and that my freind is what we have here . If a car is rebuilt using another body but has been fitted with all of the options that the original had I see it as alot of others do, its just another neglected and forgotten Muscle car brought back to life. Just to see what was available back then should not be discouraged. Now what I can't stand is Seeing a add that states ( 1971 Demon 340 original color, Auto ,8 3/4 rear. Factory ralleys and stripes).... Now what it should have said was , (1971 Dodge Demon, 340 motor , trans and 8 3/4 rear installed was a /6. has been repainted using a 1971 dodge color 71 340 stripes and rallies added). There are people who do not know about the Data plate they would go to look at the first add and buy it, thinking they got a 340 car, they did, but in reallity they didn't get the package. Now that is totally wrong, I have had people that come here for parts thinking they had a 70 340 car asking me for a optional ralley dash. When I tell them all 70 340s had them and show them their /6 vin they are discusted they had no clue the vin showed what motor it came with. So my opinion and only opinion whether it be right or wrong . Is a clone is only illegal when the criteria on the Data and vin do not match the cars options.

If you had a car being a 340, Hemi, sixpack or whatever., bought it new, some asshole slamed you in the back, shoving the tailghts to the seat. Would you send the title in for salvage and hunt for the rest of your life for another like what you had that isn't out there, or would you fix your baby using another body and rebuild what you had. I worked at a Chrysler shop in the 70's . When they were new and were hit hard we would clip them with a used body as per the insurance.On some we would only have to put on the front clip with the K and motor because the dash was the same color.(yes we knew about the rivets) I still see some of those cars at shows where the front doesn't match the back.

The best thing you can do is worry about you!, don't get involve with what others do unless it dirrectly involves you. Their are alot of crazy people out here in this world that it dosn't take much to push them over the edge. I wouldn't call any one out on this issue or threaten to take action , especially if it means hurting them or their families livelyhood. You never know what action would come back. I once saw someone go into a sittuation like this. They opened their mouth before the thought. They went into a gunfight holding their dick.Wasn't pretty. Only my opinion.