If your mopar is you daily driver!

And gas gets to be better than $5.00 a gallon and it will
what will u do good idea to plan now ?
We don't see enough old daily driver Mopar's as it is.

Will there be a run on slants/273's L.O.L

Planning ahead I have both a slant (My daily driver a body)Signet
and a v8 a body Dart for enjoyment.

But I got to thinking that if I had just the v8 as a daily driver
how truly brutal that would be, and see the options I could face

I have kids so I try to be as practical as possible:
so remember I could only pick one

1. Over drive trans, (big costly project for noobie)
2.Swap a slant in and run v8 only during summer (you get a back up motor and trans just in case)
3.drive something else better on gas scooter or ?(not good with kids)
4.swap a new generation combo(better mileage motor but costly)
For a low buck noobie:

I kinda think its a good Idea to have a spare motor and trans
I personally would temp drive a under powered slant than give up my old classic as a daily driver.
..............
So am I in left field here? My 21 yr old daughter wants a Dart but cant afford 2 cars so for someone like her... what would be the best plan?
If she were to bust her but and buy.. build a nice car she would not be able to use it daily she couldn't take it on a trip out of state at 14 miles a gallon.

My suggestion is to find a nice slant car and start looking and collecting parts for a future swap but she wants to have a mean chromed v8.and i tell her If she chooses that path she will be:walk: more than driving.
................................
Do you see most future young guns buying slant cars? what will the new mopar enthusiast look like in 10 yrs?
what would be your suggestion?
People complain about the costs of building Mopars I think gas price's might be the bigger deterrent now. I have a 14 yr old too and she wants an a body barracuda I think i will find her a slant before she gets set in stone..LOL
I have worked hard to pass the hobby to my kids and look forward to sharing the shows and the road with them.
let me here from all of you.
Dads speak up!

Well, my daily driver right now is my 1980 D150. It's got a nice little 318 magnum in it that seems to have had some work done - it rips. The really bad part is the 4:11 gears in the rear. I am lucky if I get 10mpg out of it. I am already looking to add to the driveway by maybe getting a decent older PT Cruiser. Probably just keep the truck as a hauler for when I need it.

My 273 gets 12-15mpg in town and damn near 20 on the highway if I drive it nice. (that's hard to do) I use my Dart as a daily driver in the summer if the weather cooperates. Otherwise, I drive my v-6 Dakota which gets pretty good mileage too. My wife started driving our PT Cruiser to work instead of our Town & Country which saves a bunch also. I see a lot more interest in /6's and small v-8's today. You can afford to drive them and they are still fun. A friend has a
42 Plymouth coupe with a slant and a od 4 speed and a 4:10 gear. It performs well and gets 26+ on the highway. toolman

Using this as my daily driver saves me $$$$ and it also has the best air conditioning a kick *** stereo and a leather interior and its still a Mopar.

if money is tight, conisder one of the 833 overdrive trans, should be able to do it cheap. a good running small block with good dual exhaust, chould do pretty good. i jsut put a 6 speed and 400 in my duster i mocked by some local slant six guys, but i tried to live wit hthat slant after hopping it up, and just wasnty thrilled with it. so far i got 1 mpg better than i ever did with the slant and i havent had a ton of time to tune the carb. it wasnt exactly cheap, but i did what i had to do so i could drive the car long distances without going broke. you can get ok results from a slant with some ho up parts and tuning, but just about any late model car will kick your *** and get better mpg.

Yes and no. The daily driver is a MoPar, my Dakota quad cab, which replaced my calssic car due o it's old age of OE part breakages and maintaince, I also wanted to stat some body work.

67Signet said:

And gas gets to be better than $5.00 a gallon and it will, what will u do good idea to plan now ?
We don't see enough old daily driver Mopar's as it is.

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It isn't easy keeping up on a old car sometimes and there numbers decrease every year with people junking them without care or concern.

Will there be a run on slants/273's L.O.L

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I really do not see a problem of a 360 getting 20 mpg's Hwy. I did it in a 79 Dodge Magnum B body car that weighed in at approx. 3650 empty. While a bigger engine will only get so good at getting more mileage out of a gallon of gas than a smaller engine would, the kids must understand that and also there is only so much you can do to get more There is a limit to the return of power and mileage of any engine. In the search for mileage, sometimes a bigger engine is not a better choice.

But I got to thinking that if I had just the v8 as a daily driver
how truly brutal that would be, and see the options I could face

Click to expand...

Aceptance of the engine finite (Spelling!?!?!) mileage is part of the deal of old car ownership. A newer modern engine can best an older engine in mileage, but to what degree and cost?Again, you must be willing.

I have kids so I try to be as practical as possible:
so remember I could only pick one. This could be tuff. Maybe a combo of the below?

1. Over drive trans, (big costly project for noobie)
2.Swap a slant in and run v8 only during summer (you get a back up motor and trans just in case)
3.drive something else better on gas scooter or ?(not good with kids)
4.swap a new generation combo(better mileage motor but costly)

Click to expand...

If I were to do a A body with mileage concerns now and cost would be a consideration though a good penny would still be dropped on the build because you sometimes just can't get away from the cost..... it would be;

A slant 6 car would stay that way. Even though I've never had one get even get 19 mpg Hwy. A good one (Or rebuilt unit done well w/mileage in mind) wold stay in.
An overdriver trans would be imployed, auto or manual. (Manual prefured by myself, though probably not worth the cost/hassle of doing so. Desire of one would be the reason for it.)
All with a gear ratio with mileage and cruise RPM in mind. This would also apply with a V8 anysize.

For a low buck noobie:

Click to expand...

Whats low buck?

..............

So am I in left field here? My 21 yr old daughter wants a Dart but cant afford 2 cars so for someone like her... what would be the best plan?
If she were to bust her but and buy.. build a nice car she would not be able to use it daily she couldn't take it on a trip out of state at 14 miles a gallon.

Click to expand...

I think you can, heres why;

Insurance is cheaply obtained at, maybe a 100 or so a year? Total coverage worth is a significant part of it all. My 79 Magnum is 110 a year and it is a anytime anywhere driver except to work. Must have a lockable garage. Thats it.

Fuel is allways an issue and the main concern here. So carful tuning on any engine is the main key and cruise rpm should be a known item and where you drive at. Driving outside of it, AKA stop and go traffic, will kill the mileage factor.

Do you see most future young guns buying slant cars? what will the new mopar enthusiast look like in 10 yrs? what would be your suggestion?

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Maybe, but reguardless of power train, classic cars normaly do not get good mileage. Ethier get the car and be happy with it as it is or dont get it and drive a gas mizer. Don't complain about things that can not be obtained or the lack of funds to drive it. It is what it is. Ethier your on board spending the money on fuel or your behind us saving money on fuel in a mizer gas pincher. The money spent of fuel can be controlled. The amount the car uses can be altered to a degree.

People complain about the costs of building Mopars I think gas price's might be the bigger deterrent now. I have a 14 yr old too and she wants an a body barracuda I think i will find her a slant before she gets set in stone..LOL
I have worked hard to pass the hobby to my kids and look forward to sharing the shows and the road with them.
let me here from all of you.

Dads speak up!

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A Dad speaks up.

To do up a car or purchase one done costs alot of money. Then theres up keep and the added cost of modification if so desired. You ethier have the money for it or you don't. To spend money on something unreliable as the only car is a poor move and one you would never pass onto you kids.
IMO, an old car as the main and only car is a bad move.

Example 1;

My Daughter (now 17) asked if she can have an old car. She wants a 71 Mach 1 Stang. (OK, easy boys, wifes a Ford fan, but loves old cars period no matter the maker.)

I told her she can have one when she meets the basics of ownership first.

Not understanding what I ment, I explained to her that a old classic is a great thing to have on many levels that were not going into here today and of for which we allready know. But the very first thing she MUST have is a dead reliable modern car for all the reasons that make a older car harder to maintain and keep on the road. And to a degree, undesireable.

Second, after having a modern car, the old car must be worked on be her and only her. (Enter the willing pupil) And have a space to park it in. (Ya, Dad can make room) But it all must be paid in full by her and only her and no one else period, ever, end of sentence! (AKA Rule!)
The one reason is to teach her the value of her money, understand that it is all on her. IF anyone ever helps her with a few bucks for the car, it had better be an emergency and paid back ASAP. This will keep the car all hers and ony hers without anyone being able to say chit on helping to pay for a part and not being paid back.

I've actualy met an *** that layed partial claim of ownership to a car because they flipped a few bucks to the owner for a part. I know that is wacked, but ya neverknow what *** will rise to the surface and stink up the place.

This forces the daughter to maintain a level of income for insurance, fuel, mantainance for both cars, and everything else that goes with it.

Dad pays zero!

Daughter gets a lesson in economics, encourangement to work and go to collage to make better money to make things easier.

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The basics to better mileage apply to any car. Modern cars are doing this well.

From top to bottm of the engine and then front to rear of the car, better mileage can/could result with;

A free flowing induction system. A cold air intake and K&N or equal filter should be used. An open air cleaner is good but breaths in hot engine air. The cold air intakes a little beter.

Tune the carb lean. No matter what carb you have, tune it!
I myself like a TQ on top. (Thogh ANY CARB TUNED RIGHT WILL DO) The small primaries help create a high velocity through the carb, atomizing the fuel well, going down the intake and passed the heads and valves. Speaking of which......

The intake can be swapped out for a really good dual plane. If it is a Hwy. car, and the RPM's are above 2500 at speed, a single plane intake has an edge in mileage because it breaths easier. Cylinder to cylinder tuning must be done to get the best mileage.

Cylinder head. This should be left stock except a good valve job and lifts under .400 should be improved (For stock cams) with the valve job. Good sealing valves and well prep'd are key here.

Cam, leave the 2bbl. cam in. Unless you want to be adverturous and try one for mileage. It is possible, but it could be disapointing in the power return. I'd also say use a roller cam for a reduction in friction, but that cost is plenty.

Compresion ratio. Keep it pump gas. More mileage cn be seen with a higher ratio, but it is also a balancing act with fuel cost of a hgher grade gas. More power can be added to the engine with more compresion. If 1 point is worth 3% more power without adding any more fuel, then this will translate into more efficent fuel useage and the car will go further on the same amount of fuel.

Ignition. A Multi spark unit is wise for low speed operation and a hot and powerful spark after the approx. 3000 combining of spark firing (AKA No longer a multi spark) to burn all the fuel is a top issue.

Distributor timing is #2 on the list of mileage concern areas. Like a carb, tune it well. Time it right.

Exhaust. Headers can help because breathing in was made easy as per above, make it easy on the way out. Proper pipe sizing! Dont do a 3 inch duel exhaust on a stock 273. An H or X pipe can help here as well.

Parasidic drag can be reduced on the engine. No A/C, P/S and a electric fan can help a bit as well.

Cooling system should be up to par as well.

Including the tranny and rear diff. Speaking of a tranny, they like to run cool, so add a coller and a shift kit. Trannys like to shift quickly. They shift slowly for creature comfort, not long life.

Adding an overdrive can help. This wold require you to recalculate the final drive ratio. MoPars OD trans ratio is .69. Use that figure and multiply by the current gear ratio to come up with the new final drive ratio. Example;

4,10 X .69 = 2.8290 (or 2.83 rounded)
2.76 X .69 = 1.9044 (or 1.90 rounded)

Ya think you could use a 1.90 gear ratio? Only if your attempting a land speed record. Here the 4.10 ratio would be excellent to use with an overdrive. The higher ratio helps the car move quick and easy so getting into the final drive on the Hwy. will not consume more gas and gas poorly burnt up in ineffecient burn cycles.

Tires shold be thin and sized to work with the gear ratio to cruise at and in the highest if not at peak torque since at peak torque, the fuel being used is at it's best effeinecy. Humm Spelling! Dang, tired, sorry.

OH, a torque converter can also add mileage. But this can be dicey and expensive to experiment with. Live with the stock one unless it is a factory high stall unit.

Lower the cars height. Align the front. Keep tire pressure up. Synth oil's and al fluids are helpers as well.

moparclown said:

Using this as my daily driver saves me $$$$ and it also has the best air conditioning a kick *** stereo and a leather interior and its still a Mopar.

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Nice, very nice and I couldn't agree more.

toolmanmike said:

My 273 gets 12-15mpg in town and damn near 20 on the highway if I drive it nice. (that's hard to do) I use my Dart as a daily driver in the summer if the weather cooperates. Otherwise, I drive my v-6 Dakota which gets pretty good mileage too. My wife started driving our PT Cruiser to work instead of our Town & Country which saves a bunch also. I see a lot more interest in /6's and small v-8's today. You can afford to drive them and they are still fun. A friend has a
42 Plymouth coupe with a slant and a od 4 speed and a 4:10 gear. It performs well and gets 26+ on the highway. toolman

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Mike, I agree. My Dakota gets 13 - 15 arond town, 20 Hwy. It's a V6 quad cab. I added a MSD with low returns.

Excellent example with the old 42 Dodge and it's overdrive trans and rear gear ratio.

With gas going through the roof($6 a gallon here in Ontario,Canada)I think a Gear Vendors unit would be the ticket.Pricey,but would still beable to get the best of both worlds(Street/Strip).I seen a K-car with a 440, tunnel ram ,twin carbs racing at my local track.He had driven the car there from 100 miles away.:thumrigh:.Really got me thinkin..

lot of good info there. what about engine temps? they effect efficiency in different ways, right?
i have 3.73 and a .75 and .5 od, i didnt think it was going to work well at all, figured id have to go to 4.10 but figured id give it a try first. 5th is useable down to about 40-45, 6th around 60 mph and faster it works pretty good. i looked at tire size and gear ratios for cars that would have come with this trans. i used a small cam close to a factory hp cam figuring the only way i had a chance of it working would be to have peak torque come in pretty early, but of coarse i wanted to have some power up top. i pulled some plugs after some serious highway miles and they are really clean. i was thinking it might have a hard time cruising along at 15-1700 rpm but it really does pretty good. i think i should be able to get 25 mpg ideally, but right now im dealing with a low compression 400 that i honed and threw rings in. it isnt really the optimum combo, but its sort of a balancing act of what i had and what was in the budget. i figured id see how it all worked and then i could plan a real build. for a cruiser i definitely like the small cam and the quiet exhaust.
some things im considering, would be some fresh air to the carb without a hood scoop, hhr electric fan, and maybe a small air duct under the front bumper to help smooth out air flow at highway speeds. if keeping a carb id ditch the holley 3310 for either a 600 or the thermoquad.

Engine temp? At a normal operating temp. could vary by engine and weather. Do you need heat? The normal 195 stat is probably in there. A cooler running stat may help. Again, "May" help. Same with spark plugs. Een high performance street cars, a normal stock plug is all you'll need. A cooler or hoter running one is not going to help mileage in a bg way, but then again, if you find it does, it'll be minor. Just like many of the things above....which add up.

Fresh air from a scop is an excellent idea. But a foward faceing scoop dont do much for areodynamics/mileage. A rearward cowl should help that. All in all, fresh air to the carb should be cool as possible without restrictions.

On my 400, I have a small primary TQ. The large primary TQ had more pep. But the smaller TQ has super throttle response. It does require a further push on the gas pedal though. The 3.55's aint helpin much.
I have run the 600 Edelbrock on top. It had great primary operation but found when the secondaries opened up, it only seemed to make alot of noise and go no faster than the primaiers alone did. I did not have a chance to tune it though.

$280.00 dollar van
and the dak

Also if you want to go a bit farther, you can lighten your car.
Aluminum intake, heads, waterpump, radiator, rims if you got steel wheels now and anything else you can think of without making it unbearable as a daily driver.
Fiberglass parts, hood etc.
Ok here is one i've been guilty of, a heavy tool box and a giant homemade speaker box with an amp and two subs in the trunk. If you like to bring tools bring just the basics. You can also swap out your full size spare for a space saver.
If you have A/C keep it off as much as you can.
Watch how you drive - don't jackrabbit from light to light, let off the gas alot sooner before coming to a stop by coasting longer, keep your speeds down to the speed limit, ok, I'm guilty of going ah.......a bit over the speed limit on some empty parts of the freeway on my way to work. :-$

i meant thermostat temp. i always thought, the cooler engine temp makes more power, but more wear, hotter temp reduces wear and cleaner exhaust gas, how would either effect mpg? the only thing i ever worried about was all the power i could get and keep it cool on the street.
what about the intake heat crossover. any effect on mpg? they have pissed me off in the past so if its easy enough, i block it off.

Jamesm proper engine temps is a fatory set item that a few degrees ethier way doesn't have a big effect. While longevity could be a fdactor, I have not personaly totaled over 100,000 miles on any of my rides. Though my wifes Ford has personaly seen 130,000 by her foot alone, it has not been modified except the Accel coil pac and K&N air filter. Synth oil is also used. These 3 items in concert have added about 2-2-1/2 mpg's.

Back to topic at hand, sorry.

To high a temp can cause pinging, un burt fuel due to detination just as a cold (Think winter cold) running car doesn't burn up all the fuel. It's basicly a step to far or much of you alter the running temp that much on a stock engine.

You would want enuff heat in the carb and intake track to help atomize the fuel and run well. You could jet the carn to run great on a stone cold engine. But what happens when it warms up? It runs lean. If to lean, your not only down on power, but you could end up miss fireing. Gas wasted.

So a heat crossover is good for quick warming of the engine to achieve operating temps. You don't need it, but it sure helps when it gets chilly out. It'll help with fuel mileage because it warms the car up quickly and allows the fuel to be burnt better.

I retired my Dart and drive a 95 Neon highline coupe my lil sister bought new. It now has 164k on it with the original engine that doesn't smoke or use a ton of oil. It gets 19 in town, 28 on the highway. It handles and stops well, is pretty zippy for a automatic and has cloth on the seats and nicely working air.
I miss driving my Dart with all the handling mods and things I've done over the years but when gas was first getting close to 4 bucks a gallon and I was spending 50 a week just to drive 15 minutes one way to work in town I gave up. Plus the drivers eat is springs, the ignition wiring or something tended to just randomly shut off, and yes I replaced the pickup and rechecked the wires and traded a LOT of parts.
Also the thing is now worth so much money even in rough shape that I just didn't want to chance driving it anymore. Parts are stupid high now and made of unobtanium unlike when I first got the car in 79.
I even have all the parts to do the BB disk conversion and a 727 ready to go built to Hemi Flight specs. I got my license in that car and drove it daily from 79 to 2006 with a few breaks for repairs and trying different cars to get better MPG but always ended up back in the Dart.

67Signet said:

And gas gets to be better than $5.00 a gallon and it will
what will u do good idea to plan now ?
We don't see enough old daily driver Mopar's as it is.

Will there be a run on slants/273's L.O.L


1. Over drive trans, (big costly project for noobie)
2.Swap a slant in and run v8 only during summer (you get a back up motor and trans just in case)
3.drive something else better on gas scooter or ?(not good with kids)
4.swap a new generation combo(better mileage motor but costly)


................................
Do you see most future young guns buying slant cars? what will the new mopar enthusiast look like in 10 yrs?
what would be your suggestion?
People complain about the costs of building Mopars I think gas price's might be the bigger deterrent now.let me here from all of you.

Click to expand...

My Dart is my only car. I ride bicycles when I don't feel like feeding the Dart. It doesn't get that good of mileage in the city even with the 318. Freeway's OK though. Towing a boat = Big Block fuel economy.:evil: I sold my gas guzzling B body long time ago when gas was only 1.50/gal.

Let's face it -- you aren't driving an old Mopar for mileage. There really isn't enough difference between a small block and a slant's mileage to be worth a swap. Yes, you can do a lot of little tweaks to improve mileage, as folks have mentioned, but remember, basically, what you are doing is saving money on everything else: monthly car payments, insurance, registration fees (value-based in California), service (since you can work on your Mopar, but may not have the tools/expertise/time to deal with modern electronics). At least, I know I spend less on my car than people I know with late-model rides (or at least, I did before it went into the body shop -- now I might as well lease an Aston Martin <LOL>).

I'm 21 and last summer I bought a running 273 Dart GT... My hopes were to get it reliable enough to take it on road trips. When that will happen is another question since it's been out of commission due to repairs for about 9-10 months now. One thing for sure is that the 273 is going to come out for a 340 or 360 in the future. I'll pay for the gas even if it goes up. We should be doing this for the experience, not the money.

MuuMuu101 said:

We should be doing this for the experience, not the money.

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We are, or I am anyway.

My insurance is almost nothing, as is my license and registration.
Parts are cheap relative to new cars, and I can do all the work myself.
It is highly reliable and I wouldn't hesitate to take off for the east coast with it (right now)
I have not had a no start and run situation for years.

I can stand some pretty high gas prices and still come out the end ok.

One of my kids friends had to take thier car in for a scheduled maint timing belt change and all said and done it was $1,200 bucks.
Thats a lot of gas.

Like some of you, I don't drive my MoPars and worry about mileage,...Except for the Caliber,...(aka LBC)...

Laugh if you want,...It's bought new and paid for, cost me 15 large and I hadda wait 3 months for It ,....Got no frills,...at all,...1.8 litre, 5 speed,...Might not be a screamer, but It'll chirp a decent third, and you won't be stuck behind me unless yer crazier than I am,...No cruise, nav, air, power windows or locks,...has 15 inch steelies that cost me less than 500 buckies for 5 Michelins,...Gets 35 miles per gallon all day long,...People ask me about It all the time,....no really,...they do.....

And Unlike most folks, I will put another 200 thou on the clock before she goes off to the boneyard,...everything I own gets at least 250,000 on the odo before they go away...figure I might as well get the most for my precious few dollars...

View attachment caliber.jpg

bigblock a body and 3/4 ton hemi truck or mileage.
I'll stick to my mopars.
now if gas hits 10 a gallon, I'll rethink. lol

My '74 is my daily driver at about 17mpg combined. Mileage isn't great but driving an old car is incomparable.

Having owned many different types of vehicles, I've learned that there is no free lunch as far as fuel economy goes. You can drive a 4-banger and get good mileage, but on the other hand it's a belly-button car that is mostly good at carrying people.

If you need a truck you can get a mini-truck but they can't do serious work, and by serious work I mean towing cars and hauling 5k of cargo.

If you DO need a serious truck then you are back to getting low teens fuel mileage and in most people's cases making BIG payments because they just can't imagine driving something old.

So, it's a trade-off. I have 3 mopars with a 4th on the way, a paid-for 20yo diesel truck and a belly-button that I drive when it's bad out or I'm someplace where the old car might get lifted. I don't make payments and I stopped worrying about gas mileage long ago.

My Challenger is still my daily driver, after about 5 years and over 40k miles. It has a pretty stock 318/904 in it, although I added a 4 barrel and headers and I run 3.23 gears out back. With that set up I get around 12mpg in town, and around 15-16mpg highway. I drive it like a musclecar, so I know I could do better in the mpg department if I lifted a little.

Originally I had 2.76 gears in it. With that set up, I got about the same around town, but could do more like 17-18 on the highway.

An 833 OD is a pretty cost effective swap, and with the change I saw going from 2.76's to 3.23's I'd have to say that OD gear would be great on the highway, worth at least a couple mpg's if not more. And the transmission themselves are cheap, I've picked up a few for $100 to $150. Unfortunately, the rest of the parts cost the same as any 4 speed conversion, so those can add up. But having just done a 4 speed swap on my Duster, its actually not all that hard.

As far as how long I'll drive my cars vs the price of gas, I look at it like this. I own all my cars free and clear. Insurance isn't bad, and registration is a fraction of what it would be for a new car. Plus, I do all of my own work. A new car might get better mileage, but that new car payment will buy a lot of gas for my Challenger. Add in service fees, sky high registration and insurance, and the price of gas would have to be pretty darn high for me to even consider it. I'd switch over to an OD trans or drop in some new 3rd members first, and then I can always ride my motorcycle more. Heck, I'd even consider going back to a 2 barrel and manifolds if it got really bad. :shock:. But a new car? Not so much.

67Signet said:

Do you see most future young guns buying slant cars? what will the new mopar enthusiast look like in 10 yrs?

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Purism will mostly die. People will just swap to more modern and more efficient powerplants.