The original owner mounted the battery in the trunk and ran a 2AWG wire straight to the starter. Then he ran a wire from the top push on lug on the starter to the relay and piggy backs on the same lug back to the battery. Why he did this wire I don’t know but I can understand why he wanted to run that heavy wire to the starter. Anyway, is there an issue with this? It is safe to run it this way? If you say no, what is the safety risk? If you think it’s safe, where can I run the smaller wire to rather than all the way back through the car? Thanks in advance for your reply.
1970 Duster Starter Wire Wiring - Does it Matter?
- Thread starter Toqwik
- Start date
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67Dart273
Well-Known Member
Look you have a shitload of threads on wiring problems and you don't have a factory setup. Without photos "it's only a guess."
So I have a couple. Don't you understand anything about how a Mopar starter works? I've actually attempted to explain this, and it seems to have gone nowhere
The "push on" terminal on the starter gets power from the STARTER RELAY which is fired by the IGNITION SWITCH to crank the engine
The STARTER RELAY has either 4 or 3 terminals depending on when it was made and whether it's an older stick shift. Four terminal relays have a "big stud" which is "battery." The "square" terminal goes to the starter solenoid. The two remaining "push on" terminals on the relay are the relay COIL. One terminal gets grounded through the clutch safety or neutral safety switch, the other connects to the "start" wire from the key
I have no idea how you (or the previous owner) has it wired
What you DESCRIBED sounds like the starter should be cranking at all times...........the solenoid being powered by the battery............and we know (I guess?) that is not happening?
So I have a couple. Don't you understand anything about how a Mopar starter works? I've actually attempted to explain this, and it seems to have gone nowhere
The "push on" terminal on the starter gets power from the STARTER RELAY which is fired by the IGNITION SWITCH to crank the engine
The STARTER RELAY has either 4 or 3 terminals depending on when it was made and whether it's an older stick shift. Four terminal relays have a "big stud" which is "battery." The "square" terminal goes to the starter solenoid. The two remaining "push on" terminals on the relay are the relay COIL. One terminal gets grounded through the clutch safety or neutral safety switch, the other connects to the "start" wire from the key
I have no idea how you (or the previous owner) has it wired
What you DESCRIBED sounds like the starter should be cranking at all times...........the solenoid being powered by the battery............and we know (I guess?) that is not happening?
Blind Squirrel
Well-Known Member
Another "guess" is he has probably bypassed the neutral safety switch which keeps it from starting in any gear. A very big fail point "if" that's the way it's set up. A good tech inspector will turn you away from a sanctioned event.
I will try to get a decent picture tonight if the relay. Let’s say that everything on the relay is wired correctly. If I remember correctly the wiring should run from the battery to the relay and another wire on the same lug goes to the starter. Is this correct? I like having the battery in the trunk and would like to keep it there if possible but I don’t know if that big of a wire would fit on the relay. I would like to leave the large wire straight to the starter as long as it’s safe. Hope that explains it better.
Marcohotrod
Well-Known Member
the positive battery to relay wire is not as fat as positive wire to starter. If if positive battery cable to starter is fat enough-u could remove battery relay feed wire from battery-shorten it and connect at starter stud
Blind Squirrel
Well-Known Member
You can use a ford or stand alone solenoid somewhere on that 2awg and continue the 2awg on to the starter. Then you run a short wire to your starter solenoid from the start field terminal on that starter. Then run your start (keyed) wire to the neutral safety switch then on to the start side of the ford or stand alone solenoid. Turn the key to the start position while in neutral and the ford solenoid sends juice to the start field terminal and also the solenoid on your starter. This way power is not always carried along the whole length of your 2awg to your starter. Don't forget good grounds along the way.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
No idea what a battery relay field wire is
I would not introduce other factors until you get "a sure picture" of what is going on. You can't fix **** my modifying what's there without understanding and fixing the problem THAT IS THERE
Ok let’s start with the middle picture. Ignore the 2 red wires pointing up to the right. If you look at the grommet you see one wire comes through it and turns down and it attaches to the bolt lug on the relay. On that same lug the other red wire come up and into a piece of hose that wraps around it and the main battery cable and the both go to the starter, one to the bolt on lug, smaller one to the plug on. The wire coming in went to the rear of the car where a hidden kill switch was so the car couldn’t be stolen. Both the main battery and the battery ground come through the grommet and go to the engine. As said before I would like to leave the heavy wire all the way to the starter. In my mind it makes sense to run a wire from the lug on the starter to the lug on the relay and all should be good. Thoughts?
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
OK one more time listen up Bottom photo
1...The big stud on top. This connects to BATTERY. It is HOT all times and NOT fused. It is also one of the relay contacts, and can be used as a junction point for "other things."
2.. Next one down the "square" terminal. This only goes one place: To the small terminal on the starter solenoid, NO where else and NOthing else connected to it. It should be large wire, no12 or no10
3 and 4. These are the magnet/ coil terminals and are what activates the relay. The yellow wire is "start" from the key, and the remaining one "depends." It does not matter which of the bottom two is connected to which terminal
The last of the bottom two depends on whether it is a stick or automatic. On older stick cars this terminal does not exist and is grounded by the construction of the relay. Starting in 70, with stick cars, this wire goes to the clutch safety switch. All cars with automatics this 4th terminal goes down to the transmission, to the center terminal on the neutral safety switch. It is grounded by that switch in park or neutral.
1...The big stud on top. This connects to BATTERY. It is HOT all times and NOT fused. It is also one of the relay contacts, and can be used as a junction point for "other things."
2.. Next one down the "square" terminal. This only goes one place: To the small terminal on the starter solenoid, NO where else and NOthing else connected to it. It should be large wire, no12 or no10
3 and 4. These are the magnet/ coil terminals and are what activates the relay. The yellow wire is "start" from the key, and the remaining one "depends." It does not matter which of the bottom two is connected to which terminal
The last of the bottom two depends on whether it is a stick or automatic. On older stick cars this terminal does not exist and is grounded by the construction of the relay. Starting in 70, with stick cars, this wire goes to the clutch safety switch. All cars with automatics this 4th terminal goes down to the transmission, to the center terminal on the neutral safety switch. It is grounded by that switch in park or neutral.
And yes my wiring is a mess. Wish I had a Mopar expert for an hour. It had dealer installed cruise control, dealer installed under dash ac with the controller on the drivers side of the dash just above the e brake lever so I don’t want to go wild cutting non original wires. The original wires are still bundled nice and tight in their original wrap.
You're in Florida. We have some really sharp members there. Maybe you could ask for some help.
Dart67 thanks for your wealth of info. After your post I went and checked and the square terminal wire goes to the starter as it should. Also my car is. 70 340 4 speed car. Just one basic question. Can I leave my heavy gauge wire run to the starter, run a new wire from the starter to the lug on the relay, and all be good? I understand it is suppose to run to the lug on the relay then down to the starter but does it really matter? It would be tough to get that big stiff wire on the relay lug. If I have your blessing, what gauge wire does it need to be?
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
That is hard to answer not knowing what all you do / don't have now. Originally, that big stud either went to the battery and from there to the starter, or the other way around. The main power for the passenger compartment came off that stud, through the fuse link, through the bulkhead connector and to the ammeter circuit. No idea at this point what might have been modified.
famous bob
mopar misfit
Why is it so tough ? You can buy or make a copper cable connector to fit about any wire to any stud .
Mine is in the trunk , no.2 ran to the relay , which is about where the heater motor used to be , then down to the starter , altho I think I might need to increase the size of the one going to the starter -------------
Pawned
N.R.A. Lifetime Member - And damn proud of it
According to my schematics it is a 6 gauge wire, apparently it is Brown.
Do you have a set of schematics for the car? That will answer a lot of questions for you. So you do not need to bother 67dart273 so much. And he will not have to ***** you out so much.
Let me know if you need some schematics
So after about 2 hours on my back, trying to get my big hands around the exhaust, steering, the headers, and the starter trying to wire it how I wanted to I just started laughing and thought if 67Dart273 was standing there watching he would just yell “Dumbass” non stop. All this struggling when I could have just cut the battery lead up by the firewall, install a connector and be done the correct way. I wasted too much time trying to do it a different way rather than just doing it right the first time. Just picked up some connectors so hopefully this evening it will be cranking again.
I’m depressed. Wired the car like 67dart said to. Hooked up the battery to see if it would at least crank. It turned over. This car has not been started in years. Had already picked up 2 cans of starting fluid anticipating a battle. First shot it coughed. The second shot, the crazy thing started and sat there and idled like it just ran yesterday. The fuel has to be 3-4 years old. It didn’t even smoke. It does have a noise like a loose rocker and another down by the power steering balancer area but it sounds healthy and strong. I’m smiling big tonight. Thanks for all the help.
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