No power lights etc but ignition turns over?

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El Traicionero

El Traicionero

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Hello,

'74 Gold Duster /6 225 basically standard stock set-up. Only an aftermarket stereo that was already disconnected.

Battery is new and has power. The engine started and ran fine all day. Evening (and now) there is no power except the ignition will turn over strong, but not start.

Is there a connection or part early on in the circuit that would cause this?

I'm going over the schematic in the Chilton's manual, but cannot determine what would cause this. Any thoughts?

Thank you.
 
Has the wiring been hacked up? Or is it completely stock? And when you say it turns over you mean it cranks on the starter USING THE KEY right?

Are you saying the headlights don't work? If they don't, you MAY have a failed main splice under the dash. This is a big welded splice in the black ammeter wire a few inches from the ammeter.

you need to detail EXACTLY what does and does not have power

And THINK........was it over charging? (overvoltage) You may have burned out a bunch of lamps................
 
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67Dart273 said:
Has the wiring been hacked up? Or is it completely stock? And when you say it turns over you mean it cranks on the starter USING THE KEY right?

Are you saying the headlights don't work? If they don't, you MAY have a failed main splice under the dash. This is a big welded splice in the black ammeter wire a few inches from the ammeter.

you need to detail EXACTLY what does and does not have power

And THINK........was it over charging? (overvoltage) You may have burned out a bunch of lamps................
Click to expand...

Thanks for the response.

The wiring has not been hacked up. It is stock for a '74 225 no a/c basic Gold Duster. Only the original radio was disconnected and a new one installed. But at the time, it was disconnected because it has an issue with a security feature of it. It's an old cassette tape deck.

Yes, it cranks on the starter using the key. That is correct.

The headlights do not work. No power to the headlights. No power to anything.

If it overcharged and burnt out lamps, would that happen while the car was on and running? Like, would it happen during the engine running?

It did not die. I had turned the engine off, parked. Came back, no power. No gauges work. Usually at least the alternator dashboard gauge will give a little wiggle and the gas gauge will raise showing the gas level.

Nothing was changed, it's been running fine for a few months. (was in winter storage prior)

I'll have a look at the black ammeter wire tomorrow.

thanks again
 
You can do an analysis like I just did this morning in the 'lost all power thread'.
The one difference in circuits for a '74 will be the column connector for the in column ignition switch.
'74 will have othersmaller differences but the basic power arrangement is all the same. So do analysis the same way. See whats in common.

PS. Get a shop manual which will have a more complete and accurate diagram. Then use that to draw just the circuits your interested in.
 
andrewtcrum said:
Thanks for the response.

The wiring has not been hacked up. It is stock for a '74 225 no a/c basic Gold Duster. Only the original radio was disconnected and a new one installed. But at the time, it was disconnected because it has an issue with a security feature of it. It's an old cassette tape deck.

Yes, it cranks on the starter using the key. That is correct.

The headlights do not work. No power to the headlights. No power to anything.



If it overcharged and burnt out lamps, would that happen while the car was on and running? Like, would it happen during the engine running?

It did not die. I had turned the engine off, parked. Came back, no power. No gauges work. Usually at least the alternator dashboard gauge will give a little wiggle and the gas gauge will raise showing the gas level.

Nothing was changed, it's been running fine for a few months. (was in winter storage prior)

I'll have a look at the black ammeter wire tomorrow.

thanks again
Click to expand...

This sounds like the big splice to me. See if you can get your hand "up there" into the cluster area, you may have to pull the fuse panel down out of the way, and wiggle some things. It is totally weird that the engine should crank..........as it should not.

So far as overcharge/ burned out lamps, you should have noticed the lamps being very bright. This can happen with certain alternator and or regulator problelms.

Unfortunately the 74 wiring diagrams can be a bear to understand because of the way they are drawn. This change started in '73. If you go to MyMopar and download the 2 page aftermarket wiring diagrams, these do leave out some details/ connectors/ options, but they can be easier to understand and follow. That plus the service manual for a "full picture." MyMopar does not have a 74 manual do you have such?

If you have one is it paper or CD?
 
Also the cranking symptom may be leading us down the wrong path. Analysis is "fine" but the thing is these problems can (and likely are) intermittent in nature and THINGS CHANGE right in the middle of the problem and in trying to find it.

Your main suspects (The Usual Suspects?? LOL) are battery cables/ connections, the main fuse link, the bulkhead connector, and the ammeter and it's connections.

I would start with Joe Biden's shotgun. You know, "fire two quick blasts up in the air?" What a dumbshit

ANYWAY pull the battery cables clean and inspect, and reinstall. Turn on the headlights and do some wiggle tests. Wiggle the battery cables. Wiggle around the bulkhead connector and harness. Wiggle the fuse link. Then go under the dash and wiggle the harness there, all the time looking for activity from the headlights.
 
This is a pic of the book I have. It's a Chilton's Valiant/Duster 68-76 repair & tune-up guide. Not much I can find in here on dealing with this. Or with the console area.

Is it necessary to remove the console to remove and inspect the light switch unit (that's the rheostat ya?) ?
And to remove the console, does that require dropping the steering?

Been looking through all the forums, and just not finding the info I'm thinking I need.

Been looking over all the connections, wires, replacedd a fuse (just cuz it had become covered by probably a spider nest), and the grounds and battery connections.

Still going through it all just familiarizing myself.

1593754970580..jpg
 
You're making this harder on yourself.

The American Wire diagrams have nothing to do with what is in your car - assuming its factory.
The mymopar image is one of the 2 pages 67Dart273 mentioned as way to better understand the circuitry when working with the factory diagrams.
The factory diagrams are in the Factory Service Manual. Look under 'reference' at mymopar. If its the Dodge version, it will be in the one called "Chassis" Service
You can buy a decent print or digital copy from several venders, and used ones come up for sale with some frequency.

There isn't going to be 'a solution'. In other words this isn't plug in an answer to a question type situation. It has to be diagnosed like we did here.
Read that.
Then do some quick tests to figure out what circuits are open and which are connected.
If you have questions, post them up.
I'm out until after lunch.

Your '74's basic scheme is similar enough to the one in the linked thread to get you started on a diagnosis.
We'll deal with the differences later.
 
andrewtcrum said:
I've pulled the headlamp switch. The ceramic part with spring in it is well worn, with the spring torn.
Click to expand...
OK. Lets start with this.
The spring like coil of wire in the ceramic was a type of variable resistor known as a rheostat.
We can see visible heat damage on the materials. Some thing caused too much current to flow through this part of the headlight switch.
The rheostat controls the the current to the instrument panel lamps. Turn the light switch and more or less resistance is introduced in the circuit, dimming or brightening the lamps. Depending on the year, this circuit has either a 2 or 3 amp fuse in the fusebox.

But there is a second function in this part of the switch. There is a branch that passes through from a completely different circuit, which is the dome light and any optional interior lights.
Rotating the switch knob until it clicks provides a connects the dome light to ground, turning it on. This is also fused, although at a higher amperage.

So yes, you do need to replace the switch.
You need to find a switch that has a 15 amp circuit breaker inside, not the similar looking switch with a 20 amp breaker for the headlights. Also needs to be the correct size.
You've got enough problems and sure don't need to risk more unneccessarily.
 
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Last I knew you could just simply buy a headlight switch in various parts stores. Those switches were used for YEARS in various Mopar cars, not just A bodies
 
The headlight switch is a multifunction switch.
Power at the B1 terminal is only to feed the headlights
It has a 15 amp breaker.
Power at the B2 terminal feeds the parking and marker lights.
upload_2020-7-7_7-44-25-png.png


Internally B2 also connects to the rheostat.
Power out from the rheostat is wired like this
upload_2020-8-2_10-1-20.png

The wiring for the instrument lights goes to a lower current fuse.
Finally there is a connection for the dome/interior lights. This is a ground connection just like the door switches.
In sum, there are three hot wires connected to the headlight switch.
 
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Mattax said:
The headlight switch is a multifunction switch.
Power at the B1 terminal is only to feed the headlights
It has a 15 amp breaker.
Power at the B2 terminal feeds the parking and marker lights.
View attachment 1715571651

Internally B2 also connects to the rheostat.
Power out from the rheostat is wired like this
View attachment 1715571644
The wiring for the instrument lights goes to a lower current fuse.
Finally there is a connection for the dome/interior lights. This is a ground connection just like the door switches.
In sum, there are three hot wires connected to the headlight switch.
Click to expand...
Sweet deal. I think I get it!
 
"There are three hot wires." This is misleading. The yellow is not a feed. It is a ground switching leg. It is hot at the cold end of the dome lights it is not truly a "hot wire"

Ironracer you need to stop posting to these old threads, and start one yourself next time.

The tan is an OUTPUT from the dash dimmer rheostat. IF YOU have park/ tail/ marker lights and nothing on the tan WHILE THE KNOB is twisted to the left, then you have problems in the switch, most likely a bad dimmer rheostat
 
67Dart273 said:
"There are three hot wires." This is misleading. The yellow is not a feed. It is a ground switching leg. It is hot at the cold end of the dome lights it is not truly a "hot wire"

Ironracer you need to stop posting to these old threads, and start one yourself next time.

The tan is an OUTPUT from the dash dimmer rheostat. IF YOU have park/ tail/ marker lights and nothing on the tan WHILE THE KNOB is twisted to the left, then you have problems in the switch, most likely a bad dimmer rheostat
Click to expand...
Thank you. And I will start posting my own threads.
 
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