DionR
Well-Known Member
BTW, I think I have a set of stock front hangers under the bench if you wanted pictures or measurements to compare. Just tossing it out there.
12:05 Garage- ’70 Duster build
- Thread starter racerjoe
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BTW, I think I have a set of stock front hangers under the bench if you wanted pictures or measurements to compare. Just tossing it out there.
racerjoe
Well-Known Member
Knowing what I know now, sliders are the only way to go if you want improved handling. It's a very noticeable change and its super simple to adapt them, so why not do it?
Planning on hitting the autox on 3/10, weather permitting. I should have a good idea then. There's only so much I can do on the street to test turning fast. Hitting roundabouts at 50mph is fun, but I could do that before.
I received my tire pyrometer also, so I'll be collecting more data that day as well. I'd like to get the alignment and tire pressures more dialed in. I may not need as much static camber now that I have a fair amount of camber gain. Tire temps will show me what I need to change, if anything.
DionR
Well-Known Member
That was exactly my thought. Simple to do and I can’t imagine it not being a noticeable improvement.
Since I have to build a rear axle, why not move the springs and do sliders.
DionR
Well-Known Member
Hey, just an idea to think about.
I guess the E46 BMW ABS module is the hot ticket for ABS retrofits and I see them discussed a fair amount for the Corvette guys. I know you said your front hubs don’t have a tone ring, but you could get some if you wanted and would be half way there to do this.
They use a Teves MK60 setup which has zero interaction with the rest of the car so they are really easy to retrofit. Drawback is the hot ticket M3 module is pulling 4 digits in cost, but I guess there are some other modules that can be flashed and I suspect they show up in the pick and pull yards still.
I only bring it up because I saw one guy slide through a corner at the Optima meet in Vegas and a guy standing there with me said “the biggest difference between the older cars and newer cars on the track is ABS”. And in reading on this swap, I guess it can be huge to have a good ABS setup on a car.
Here is a thread if you wanted some light reading:
Standalone ABS Installs (MK60 and More)
I’ve been working at getting a ‘10 Challenger ABS module setup for my G3 swap but just for a speed output so CC works. But I have since discovered they used a Teves MK25e setup so might explore a full ABS swap. I doubt even the SRT tune is as good as an M3 though.
I guess the E46 BMW ABS module is the hot ticket for ABS retrofits and I see them discussed a fair amount for the Corvette guys. I know you said your front hubs don’t have a tone ring, but you could get some if you wanted and would be half way there to do this.
They use a Teves MK60 setup which has zero interaction with the rest of the car so they are really easy to retrofit. Drawback is the hot ticket M3 module is pulling 4 digits in cost, but I guess there are some other modules that can be flashed and I suspect they show up in the pick and pull yards still.
I only bring it up because I saw one guy slide through a corner at the Optima meet in Vegas and a guy standing there with me said “the biggest difference between the older cars and newer cars on the track is ABS”. And in reading on this swap, I guess it can be huge to have a good ABS setup on a car.
Here is a thread if you wanted some light reading:
Standalone ABS Installs (MK60 and More)
I’ve been working at getting a ‘10 Challenger ABS module setup for my G3 swap but just for a speed output so CC works. But I have since discovered they used a Teves MK25e setup so might explore a full ABS swap. I doubt even the SRT tune is as good as an M3 though.
racerjoe
Well-Known Member
Honestly never thought of ABS before. I knew there were aftermarket systems out there that cost a small fortune. I'll do some nerding out on this.
Speaking of nerding out, I was trying to think of a scientific way to come up with the correct camber and caster. The problem is I would need more sensors than I have available inputs on my ECU. Here's my idea:
Install shock travel sensors at each corner, a 4 axis inclinometer to measure body roll on X and Y axis, and steering angle sensor. Combine all this data along with wheel speed and I should be able to compare it to camber curves to determine what angle the tire needs to be so that it is always as close to flat on the ground as possible. I'm not sure if the values would be linear or not, but it would be fun. However, I likely won't do it because sensors aren't cheap, nor is an IO add on module. Therefore, the $60 tire pyrometer will do....
DionR
Well-Known Member
Could you load the chassis somehow to creat the same attitude? I guess it would take some chains to pull one side down and maybe a couple of jacks to lift the other side. But if so, maybe it would give you some hits as to what the tire is actually doing.
In the end though, I would bet the pyrometer is the better and easier way to go. Seems like it is a pretty proven methodology.
racerjoe
Well-Known Member
I don't have a method to do that, but it wouldn't be accurate anyway. I need to know how much it actually rolls under real world conditions. The LCA bumps are only around 1" away from contacting the limits and it doesn't appear they have bottomed out. I need to put a dab of grease on it to see if they actually touch. I don't remember what my compression limit was, maybe 2-2.5" of travel at the wheel. If it isn't touching, I'd say body roll is under control! I have video of the suspension moving before the longer UBJs and it moved a lot! I'll do another video to compare.
racerjoe
Well-Known Member
Hit the autocross this past weekend armed with my tire pyrometer. The picture below is a snapshot of a video my wife took. This was a 180 degree turn. Note how vertical the right front tire is. That looks pretty good to me! I actually think I have a touch too much camber or caster because the tire temps are slightly warmer on the inside of the tires. I deflated the tire 2lbs from my normal to let the tire flex more, which proved to have some improvement. Later in the day I attached a go pro to the quarter window which also captured my gauge cluster. I was going through the apex of this 180 degree corner at 30mph. I know it doesn't seem fast, but next time you are driving, take a 90 degree turn at 30 and see how it feels in your daily. There was also a 5 cone slalom that I ran through at 50mph. Cones were 30 paces apart, so maybe 90'. (Yes I pace off the slaloms when I walk the course to make sure they aren't decreasing distance.)
I'm thinking I may take .25 degrees of caster out before then next autocross to see if that helps any. I love that I'm to the point where I'm making such minor adjustments. Why did I wait so long to get a tire pyrometer?!?
I'm thinking I may take .25 degrees of caster out before then next autocross to see if that helps any. I love that I'm to the point where I'm making such minor adjustments. Why did I wait so long to get a tire pyrometer?!?
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You are fortunate to have consistent nice weather. Up here, it is in the 20's and snowing one day and the next it is 70's and sunny. At least the shop is a constant dry and 69 degrees.
Nice job getting dialed in.
Nice job getting dialed in.
DionR
Well-Known Member
Hey Joe, didn’t you ask somewhere if you could cut the top off the timing chain cover on the G3 to get ride of the horizontal stud that doesn’t do anything? Not certain it was you and can’t find the post now.
I’ve recently tripped over a couple of videos of guys installing HC blowers on 5.7’s and they have to cut the odd bolt off the top of the TC cover to make them fit. If it was you that was thinking about it, wanted to point it out.
Videos are linked in this thread:
6.1 Hemi with Hellcat SC
I’ve recently tripped over a couple of videos of guys installing HC blowers on 5.7’s and they have to cut the odd bolt off the top of the TC cover to make them fit. If it was you that was thinking about it, wanted to point it out.
Videos are linked in this thread:
6.1 Hemi with Hellcat SC
racerjoe
Well-Known Member
Yes, that was me. I feel like I've watched this video in the past. If I would have cut it off, I would have welded something to cover the "hole" left behind because it would be visible. I still don't get the point in putting a HC supercharger on anything that is non-HC. It seems cost prohibitive to me.
I should have some hemi updates in the coming weeks...
DionR
Well-Known Member
I don’t disagree with you. At the same time, there is a visual appeal, and the playlist (second link) has a video where the guy made like 560hp RWHP on E85 and a smaller pulley.
My understanding was that the majority of the cost was all the HC specific FEAD components. But these guys are just flipping the pulley and running the blower off the accessory belt with an add on idler. Not the best or the factory would have done it, but workable and somewhat cost effective. I think he said he had $1800 in the blower itself? Seems like it could be done for much less than an Edelbrock kit?
Not going to lie, those videos have me kind of thinking of looking for a blower to pick up “just in case”.
Hopefully that will pass like the ‘23 SPWB I was drooling over last week and running payment scenarios on.
Nice! Wish I had some progress coming. I do have some modules to scan and starting to dig into sniffing the CANbus to get the CC messages so I guess I’m at least doing something.
racerjoe
Well-Known Member
Here's a couple shots from the last autocross.
This turn was just before the one I previously posted. I like this photo since it shows how both front tires have good contact with the ground even with what looks like about 20 degrees of steering angle.
This turn was just before the one I previously posted. I like this photo since it shows how both front tires have good contact with the ground even with what looks like about 20 degrees of steering angle.
racerjoe
Well-Known Member
Here's a couple glamour shots of the 5.7. I tried "Motor Coater" engine paint this time. They advertise it as being a brush on paint that flows the brush strokes out. There was no way I was painting this with a brush. There are way too many spots that would be impossible to reach with a brush. So I just mixed it up with some reducer and harder I had and sprayed it. This paint laid out awesome and coverage was very good. Highly recommend this brand paint.
Also nearly finished my harness. That's a high temp "loom" in the valley. I'll likely add a p clamp to hold it in place to prevent strain on any connectors. All I have left to do on the harness is install the 47 pin Deutsch connector so it plugs into my existing firewall receptacle. I do need to add the coil drivers, but otherwise, electrically, it will be plug and play.
Also nearly finished my harness. That's a high temp "loom" in the valley. I'll likely add a p clamp to hold it in place to prevent strain on any connectors. All I have left to do on the harness is install the 47 pin Deutsch connector so it plugs into my existing firewall receptacle. I do need to add the coil drivers, but otherwise, electrically, it will be plug and play.
DionR
Well-Known Member
Very nice!
racerjoe
Well-Known Member
So everyone knows the challenges with G3 engine mounts for an A body swap. I don't ever recall seeing anyone share photos of the HDK mount fitment. Note this is clearly on an engine stand and the mounts may need to be adjusted to fit the K.
So this is obviously the left side. Note early 5.7 low mount AC compressor fits without any modification. These are TTI headers and they clear everything so far.
This is the closest point of "contact". I think I could fit a feeler gauge in there. Note the HDK mounts are adjustable on the block side. I have this mount set to have the engine in the most rearward position. Obviously I can't move this any further forward without modification to something. I'll likely trim the mount to give the compressor some more breathing room. I actually mounted the compressor after the mounts and it went in just fine. I didn't even notice how close it was until after it was pulled full tight.
OK, right side. One thing I love about this is I can still use the factory oil filter location.
Mount looks super close here. Also note, mounts setup to have engine pushed back as much as possible.
Close up on the close spot. It's actually about 1/16" gap right there, which will get slightly larger once I have the gaskets on the headers. I could pull the mount forward to get more clearance here, but then the other side would need to crash into the compressor.
So this is obviously the left side. Note early 5.7 low mount AC compressor fits without any modification. These are TTI headers and they clear everything so far.
This is the closest point of "contact". I think I could fit a feeler gauge in there. Note the HDK mounts are adjustable on the block side. I have this mount set to have the engine in the most rearward position. Obviously I can't move this any further forward without modification to something. I'll likely trim the mount to give the compressor some more breathing room. I actually mounted the compressor after the mounts and it went in just fine. I didn't even notice how close it was until after it was pulled full tight.
OK, right side. One thing I love about this is I can still use the factory oil filter location.
Mount looks super close here. Also note, mounts setup to have engine pushed back as much as possible.
Close up on the close spot. It's actually about 1/16" gap right there, which will get slightly larger once I have the gaskets on the headers. I could pull the mount forward to get more clearance here, but then the other side would need to crash into the compressor.
DionR
Well-Known Member
Nice. Doesn’t look like anything but some minor grinding (if even that) to get it to fit. Good info.
since it is not going in immediately, I will send you the new HDK RH mount where I addressed the clearance issue on both spots. I will have to look (it has been a while) but I think I updated the LH mount also reducing the flange bracket that sticks out. I will have to check in the morning.
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racerjoe
Well-Known Member
Denny, I'm not complaining at all and appreciate your continued support. While I have put time into the HDK with adjustments and measurements, I haven't touched one part of it with a grinder or welder. Can't say that about many major parts these days.
No worries, It is exciting to be a small part of your hot rod build. Every time I need another batch of any bracket laser cut, I like to incorporate any changes that may improve what I feel is already top shelf.
racerjoe
Well-Known Member
For those following here, check this out. One wire conversion has never been easier.
How to make your G3 alternator a 1 wire connection
How to make your G3 alternator a 1 wire connection
racerjoe
Well-Known Member
Man I hope it does. If not, I have a few different ideas to remediate that problem. Of course all of those ideas could go to **** once I have all the parts trying to play together.
racerjoe
Well-Known Member
On my LA engine, I made a wire bracket that attached to the pan rail for something to hold the charge wire. It worked well, so I made one for this engine as well. It keeps it secure and out of the way of heat and moving parts.
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