junkyardhero
Well-Known Member
i love minilites and they look great on that car.
if it were a different build, i'd likely be headed in that direction. but alas, here we are.
btw, that val looks killer. even with the slots on it.
17" Magnum 500's
- Thread starter junkyardhero
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if it were a different build, i'd likely be headed in that direction. but alas, here we are.
btw, that val looks killer. even with the slots on it.
junkyardhero
Well-Known Member
The Year One 17” magnums are like the 17” year one rallye’s, the backspace and sizing isn’t really very good for A-bodies. They’re basically set up for B/E bodies.
I’ve seen it done, but, you have to run smaller tires than is typically used on the wheel widths and you will have to keep your ride height stock or higher.
I’ve seen it done, but, you have to run smaller tires than is typically used on the wheel widths and you will have to keep your ride height stock or higher.
<blows on fingernails and smiles in the mirror>
junkyardhero
Well-Known Member
*grumbles*
well, this isn't looking great...
i was looking at something in the 235~245 range, how does that jive with the front end things and stuffs?
(i defer to your superior experience and granular knowledge in these such matters)
NoCar340
The Original Partstitute
Those suckers set me back way over a grand, and that was in 2014. They were my Christmas gift to myself for the next three years.
That's the $7,500 Wonder: It was a running 225 column-auto 7.25" car when I bought it. Now it's a solid-roller W2 340, 4-speed, 4.10 Sure Grip 8.75" with SBP K-H brakes and a spring relocation--all fresh or brand new. My avatar is that car's engine. Add new floors, carpets, steering-column conversion, solid used LH front rail, custom driveshaft, SS springs, eight tires, blah blah blah (the parts list goes on forever) and I'm still into it for less than $8K including the car. That's why it's still beat, rusted, and bondoed, and it will stay that way. We made it solid enough to hurl down a dragstrip, with no thought given to looks.btw, that val looks killer. even with the slots on it.
They tell me shiny paint creates stress. I wouldn't know.
Here's a crappy picture with the drag wheels, back when the vinyl top was present:
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
That valiant is just about perfect in my book.
junkyardhero
Well-Known Member
your honor, let the record reflect that the witness is being unreasonable.
cragars are okay on early vals & cudas
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
Typing small won’t make it true.
The 17x8 YO magnums have a 4.5” backspace.
245/45/17’s need more like 5” of backspace (minimum!) on a 17x8 to have any real clearance to the fenders in the front.
By comparison, a set of 245/45/17’s on a 17x8 with a 4.5” backspace will stick out over a 1/2” further than the 275/35/18’s I run on 18x9’s on my Duster. And my fenders have the lips rolled flat and the whole thing is pushed out with the fender roller. My car is lowered and with the push I have a bit of clearance, but to run those YO 17x8’s you’d have to put the wheel opening well above the top of the tire to keep from rubbing.
And while that’s possible, it looks like ****, especially with the 17” wheel and shorter sidewall. The 235 saves you a few mm’s but even those are still further to the fenders than my 275’s are. Only a 225 gets close to the same spot as my 275’s, but at that point the tire will look stretched on the rim, which also looks like crap on these cars.
Now, some of that is my opinion, but in my opinion with a 17” or larger wheel you need the top of the wheel opening pretty close to level with the top of the tire. And you need a bit of shoulder on the tire, so, you want the tires measuring wheel to be about the same as the wheel width you’re gonna run. If you run the max recommended width wheel (like a 225 on a 17x8) the tire sidewall gets rounded with the stretch and looks even shorter, which makes it harder to make it look good on an old muscle car.
A friend of mine has the same model GTO as me. My GTO has the original 14" wheels, but one inch wider [ now 7" ]. 235/60 section tyre. Mates car has these horrible looking 17" wheels, small section & feels every bump in the road, like & horse & cart.
Wheels and tires are a part of your cars suspension. If you just slap a set of 17's on without making the appropriate changes to your alignment and suspension components you can absolutely end up with a car that rides like crap, even though you've likely improved its grip and potential performance. But you have to match the suspension to the new capabilities of the wheels and tires.
You would have the similar result if you put 14" rims and bias-ply's on a modern car without making changes to the alignment and suspension- it would handle and ride like crap, because that's not what the suspension was designed for.
If you make the proper improvements to your suspension the 17" wheels will improve handling without sacrificing ride quality. But that requires matching the capabilities of your suspension to your new wheels and tires and running a proper modern alignment, not factory specs for bias ply's.
junkyardhero
Well-Known Member
well, good thing i don't have a pontiac then!
junkyardhero
Well-Known Member
The shorter sidewalls have a greater effect on ride quality than air pressure or amount of air. But as mentioned earlier, it's not about just one thing. It's about a combination of things that add up to a decent ride quality.
Notice I said suspension components too? Go back and read what I actually said.
If you run the same wheel rate and cheap shocks with your 17’s as you did with your 14’s you get a crappy ride because yes, you’ve changed how those tires grip the road and how much shock absorbing capacity the tires have.
But you know, if you improve the shock absorbing capabilities of the SHOCK ABSORBERS then you don’t need to have that issue.
So exactly as I said, people that say that larger diameter wheels cause a harsh ride are just directly advertising they don’t understand the physics of suspension or even basic suspension tuning.
The most basic concept of suspension is that it’s to keep the tires in contact with the road. If you change how the tires interact with the road by changing their profile and compounds, you have to make changes to the suspension (and alignment). It’s that simple.
Pal,
I understand the 'physics' of suspension better than you & for longer than you have. There are some things that are just FACT. One of them is that a tyre with a very short sidewall is going to give a rougher ride because the AIR is what cushions the road shock & there is less air to cushion the shock. If you think better shocks/spring rate improves the 17" wheel ride, then those components used with a 14" wheel will also make THAT ride smoother/less harsh.
I understand the 'physics' of suspension better than you & for longer than you have. There are some things that are just FACT. One of them is that a tyre with a very short sidewall is going to give a rougher ride because the AIR is what cushions the road shock & there is less air to cushion the shock. If you think better shocks/spring rate improves the 17" wheel ride, then those components used with a 14" wheel will also make THAT ride smoother/less harsh.
junkyardhero
Well-Known Member
clown shoes.
Well since you don't know all that much about me that's a pretty bold statement. But I don't need to know you to understand your grasp on suspension theory is pretty tenuous, that's all right here.
Wow.
Yes, a tire with a short sidewall will transmit more energy into the suspension because it can't absorb as much, that is true. But a shock absorber that has been designed for that application doesn't need that additional cushioning, so the overall ride doesn't need to suffer at all if the suspension is tuned to handle it.
This is easily seen with any modern luxury vehicle that has both short sidewall tires and a smooth, luxurious ride. It's not at all hard to find a modern car with short sidewall tires that rides better than any of these vehicles ever did in stock trim, these cars in stock trim were nothing all that special from a ride or handling perspective. Heck even the ride in these cars with 14" wheels and radial tires is softer than what the factory intended, the OE bias ply's have much stiffer sidewalls than radials do and the shocks of the time were pretty pathetic.
So while it is a fact that a shorter sidewall tire will transmit more energy to the suspension, it is not at all fact that it has to result in a rougher ride. Because there are literally millions of cars on the road today that show that isn't the case.
Seems to me like you just believe in vague, general platitudes about suspension theory, rather than having a good handle on the actual physics behind it.
Not necessarily. The shock should be tuned to match the wheel rate and the inputs from the wheel/tire. Those inputs will be different coming from a short sidewall tire vs a tall sidewall tire, different frequencies, different amplitudes, different overall load values. So really, a shock that will handle a higher wheel rate and shorter sidewall may not be the best choice for a tall sidewall tire and lower wheel rate. You have to match the capabilities of all the components of your suspension, they all work together, and that starts at the tire and goes all the way to the chassis.
Realistically though a shock that can handle the additional demands of the higher wheel rate and shorter sidewall will probably deal with the inputs from 14" wheel just fine, it's gonna be a better quality shock than you generally find on a car running 14" wheels.
Unfortunately even if the shock handles the wheel inputs just fine, it can't do anything to correct the increased sidewall flex you'll get with 14" wheels. And the taller sidewalls will deform with any input, so, not just inputs from the road but also inputs from steering. So even if the better shocks resulted in a better ride with the 14" wheels you'd still have the vague, sloppy steering and cornering response to deal with. Because every input you make at the steering wheel has to go through that extra tire deformation before it changes what happens where the tire meets the road, so your inputs feel slow and vague by comparison. And shocks can't fix that.
I've driven these cars with 14" wheels and stock suspension. It's not impressive. The suspension bottoms out because the wheel rate is too soft, the steering response is vague and slow even with a decent alignment, and there just isn't a DOT legal tire for a 14" wheel that's worth a crap so you never have anything remarkable for traction. I put thousands of miles a year on my Duster with its 18" wheels and low profile tires, and it rides and handles far better than it did with 14" or even 15" wheels and fairly stock suspension.
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