1958 Super Red Ram HELP

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They are not that heavy, but you are looking at spending a lot of money. Dodge Hemi heads will fit and aluminum aftermarket intakes are available. Early Hemis are absolutely Cool, but you have a long way to go to get there. My limited experience is with the Chrysler early Hemi. I have been amassing parts for years. Dodge Hemis are the smallest of the early Hemis.

http://hothemiheads.com/
 
62v200 said:
I don't have the car anymore, but it was a listed option in the owners manual and the old Motors Manual I have at home. If I can find it, I will copy and post.
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Thanks for info
 
66fs said:
They are not that heavy, but you are looking at spending a lot of money. Dodge Hemi heads will fit and aluminum aftermarket intakes are available. Early Hemis are absolutely Cool, but you have a long way to go to get there. My limited experience is with the Chrysler early Hemi. I have been amassing parts for years. Dodge Hemis are the smallest of the early Hemis.

http://hothemiheads.com/
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BUt as we have discovered THIS engine is not a HEMI it is a poly 270.:)
 
Dodge changed the naming on the hemi/poly engines by year. Initially, only a hemi could be a super red ram. But that changed as the model years changed, so what a "super red ram" was depended on what year it was actually made. And of course, those are just stickers, so anyone could have put them there at any point. I've heard so many different theories on how the Dodge hemi's/poly's were named that I completely ignore the stickers and go solely on serial and casting numbers.

And, that's not a '58. At least not if the serial number starts D533. In fact, it shouldn't even start D533. Maybe D553, or even D633, but not D533.

It appears to be a 55 or 56 Dodge poly, which would make it a 270. If it were a later Dodge poly it's possible that it could be a 315 or a 325, as there was a later, taller deck version of the same engine. All of the early Dodge hemi's came in a poly version as well except for the 241's. The 270 poly has the same exact block as a 270 hemi, the only difference are the heads, pistons, and push rods. The rest is exactly the same. I'm pretty sure the 270 poly is actually narrower than the 318 poly, and those two engines have almost nothing common except for the name.

As far as putting it in a '65 Cuda, knock yourself out. But as RRR said, it won't be a bolt in operation. Custom mounts and a custom exhaust at the least, and you'll have to watch firewall and steering box clearance too. From a performance standpoint, its a pretty small displacement engine. If you leave it as a poly it offers no real advantages over the original 273, and it will cost at least twice as much to build. If you get a set of 270 hemi heads for it, you'll up the "cool" factor and build a little more horsepower, but you'd be spending 3x as much, if not more.

If you have the casting # from the block, or even the intake, I could narrow down the identity of the engine a bit more. I'm in the Sacramento area too, so if you wanted me to look at it I might be able to help. I have half a dozen of the early Dodge hemi's and poly's, so I'm fairly decent at identifying them.
 
Mopar Tim said:
BUt as we have discovered THIS engine is not a HEMI it is a poly 270.:)
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That is why I said he would have to get Hemi Heads. They will bolt on. I would not consider running the old Poly, let alone trading a Commando or standard 273 for it. See above, 72bluNblu has pretty much nailed it.
 
It could be lots of different displacements. All the way up to I believe 325. I was incorrect when I said 350, that was the first year B engine, like what Christine had.
 
RustyRatRod said:
It could be lots of different displacements. All the way up to I believe 325. I was incorrect when I said 350, that was the first year B engine, like what Christine had.
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Yeah the Dodge's came in 241, 270, 315, and 325. The poly's were 270 up to 325.

But, if the serial starts "D5xx" and the next digits are anything other than "00" or "01", as in D500 or D501, its pretty much a 270. The fact that it's a poly with those numbers pretty much makes it a '55 270, unless someone has swapped poly heads onto an earlier '53 or '54 270 hemi block (unlikely). And even in that case it's a poly now, the blocks were the same anyway.

They made the poly's all the way up to '58 and in displacements up to 325, but none of those serials would start with "D5". Or, well, they shouldn't based on everything I know. The serials on the early hemi's were even less regimented/documented than the numbers and options on our musclecars and there are a LOT of different serials, since the serials were different for the same engine if it was in a different vehicle, so I try not to say that they didn't do something. Just that I haven't seen/heard of it. A casting number from the block would narrow it down a more.

But, my money would be on it being a '55 270.
 
Gotchya. It's still a cool old piece of history, regardless. Hardly a boat anchor. It would be the coolest rat rod motor you ever saw. I love those saw tooth valve covers.
 
A '58 would be a 325 POLY (I had one). Dodge hemi heads WILL fit the motor (I did that, too). LONG stroke (3.8"), small bore. I considered putting the one I put together into my Barracuda, but I've got a spare 340 in the garage and the 440 that is going into it.
 
72bluNblu said:
Yeah the Dodge's came in 241, 270, 315, and 325. The poly's were 270 up to 325.

But, if the serial starts "D5xx" and the next digits are anything other than "00" or "01", as in D500 or D501, its pretty much a 270. The fact that it's a poly with those numbers pretty much makes it a '55 270, unless someone has swapped poly heads onto an earlier '53 or '54 270 hemi block (unlikely). And even in that case it's a poly now, the blocks were the same anyway.

They made the poly's all the way up to '58 and in displacements up to 325, but none of those serials would start with "D5". Or, well, they shouldn't based on everything I know. The serials on the early hemi's were even less regimented/documented than the numbers and options on our musclecars and there are a LOT of different serials, since the serials were different for the same engine if it was in a different vehicle, so I try not to say that they didn't do something. Just that I haven't seen/heard of it. A casting number from the block would narrow it down a more.

But, my money would be on it being a '55 270.
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well I'm not to familiar with it as well but from what you said It makes sense. I was wondering why it said 58 when the casting numbers were completely off. I think I'm just going to pass on this id rather stick to my original 273 904 set. thanks a lot for the info tho
 
I wouldn't but if you want something different.................
 
sorry guys this is what it is. its not a 58

1955 Super Red Ram "POLY" Head 354/360 cid Engine
 
72bluNblu said:
Yeah the Dodge's came in 241, 270, 315, and 325. The poly's were 270 up to 325.

But, if the serial starts "D5xx" and the next digits are anything other than "00" or "01", as in D500 or D501, its pretty much a 270. The fact that it's a poly with those numbers pretty much makes it a '55 270, unless someone has swapped poly heads onto an earlier '53 or '54 270 hemi block (unlikely). And even in that case it's a poly now, the blocks were the same anyway.

They made the poly's all the way up to '58 and in displacements up to 325, but none of those serials would start with "D5". Or, well, they shouldn't based on everything I know. The serials on the early hemi's were even less regimented/documented than the numbers and options on our musclecars and there are a LOT of different serials, since the serials were different for the same engine if it was in a different vehicle, so I try not to say that they didn't do something. Just that I haven't seen/heard of it. A casting number from the block would narrow it down a more.

But, my money would be on it being a '55 270.
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you were right its a 55
 
he is selling the tranny with it

Torqueflite A488 transmission ...

should i still not buy it??
 
jasdeep said:
well I'm not to familiar with it as well but from what you said It makes sense. I was wondering why it said 58 when the casting numbers were completely off. I think I'm just going to pass on this id rather stick to my original 273 904 set. thanks a lot for the info tho
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It probably came out of a '58, lots of things happen over the course of 60 years. And it would bolt right in place of any of the Dodge Hemi's or poly's. Somebody probably blew up their 315 or 325 and managed to get their hands on a cheap 270 back in the day.

It's a great engine, like I said I have 6 of them. Mostly 270's, I do have a 315. They're great for small hot rods- model A's, pretty much any of the early to mid thirties coupe's or trucks. The valve covers make them stand out from pretty much everything else out there, and it's not too hard to pull 300 hp out of them and still have a reliable driver. Or track down a set of hemi heads and make it a Dodge hemi. Much easier to fit into an early engine compartment than a Chrysler hemi, or even one of the DeSoto hemi's.

But yeah, I wouldn't do all that work and spend all that money to put it in a '65 Barracuda and then promptly close the hood. For what you're doing it sounds like the 273, or an LA 318 or 360, would be a better choice. Lots less fabrication for any of the LA engines, more power for less money too.

jasdeep said:
sorry guys this is what it is. its not a 58

1955 Super Red Ram "POLY" Head 354/360 cid Engine
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Its a '55, but it's not a 354 or 360. It's a '55 Dodge, and that would make it a 270 and nothing else.

jasdeep said:
he wants a 1000 for both the engine and tranny.. what do you guys think
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A little steep for a poly unless its a good running engine. The transmission is a 2 speed auto, they're really not worth much unless you're restoring a 50's Mopar. I wouldn't put the transmission in anything on purpose. They work, that's about it.
 
i already have a 273 not commando tho i want to get something bigger are you trying to sell any of your engines 72blu?
 
jasdeep said:
i already have a 273 not commando tho i want to get something bigger are you trying to sell any of your engines 72blu?
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Yeah that's kind of why I don't think the poly would be a good idea. It's only a 270. Even if it were a 325, it would still be a TON of work to put it in that Barracuda, and it would cost 3x the amount to re-build it than a 318.

Nah, I'm not selling any of my early poly's or hemi's. I probably should, but I haven't even started the projects I got them for so I'm keeping them for now. ;)

I do have a '74 318 that I pulled out of a '74 Dart. It needs a rebuild, but it was running when I pulled it and its all there, including the car oil pan. I could let that go for a $100. It would need a rebuild, but its a good core. I also have a set of later 318 smog heads (not 302's) that someone put a set of 2.02/1.60 valves in, would be happy to sell those too. Looks like they could use a valve job, but they're in good shape otherwise. Shoot me a PM if you're interested in any of that stuff, I'm pretty much in Sacramento too.
 
The dodge red ram Hemi heads will bolt onto that block. Pistons would need changed also
to do this.
 
66fs said:
Will the early Hemi Intake manifolds fit the early Poly's?
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Yes, they will. All of the poly engines used the same intake manifolds as their respective Hemi engines. Only thing you have to keep straight is the deck heights.

For example- I have an Offy 4 barrel intake on a 270 poly. It's sold as a 270 hemi intake, although it will also fit 241 hemi's and the 270 poly's.

It won't fit a Dodge 315/325 though, because they have a taller deck height. But a 315/325 hemi intake will fit a 315/325 poly. It does get confusing, because you can use the 315/325 heads on a 241/270 for the larger ports and valves. The heads are the same externally, like using 360 heads on a 318. You'd still use the intake from a 241/270.

Same for the Chryslers, sort of. A 301 poly can use a 331/354/392 intake. And that last one is where it gets weird. The 392's had taller decks, but they added extra material onto the intake side of the head so the intakes were the same regardless of the deck height (unlike the Dodge's). Unless, of course, you put 392 heads on a 301/331/354 block, in which case you have issues. Or, if you put 301/331/354 heads on a 392, because then you need spacers for the intake. The latter is pretty popular, because a lot of folks think the '55 331 heads were actually the best one's made. So, you end up with '55 331 heads on 392's, and then you need intake spacers. Or to run log manifolds like the 6x2's or 8x2's, doesn't matter on them, you just need longer hoses to connect the logs.
 
72bluNblu said:
Yes, they will. All of the poly engines used the same intake manifolds as their respective Hemi engines. Only thing you have to keep straight is the deck heights.

For example- I have an Offy 4 barrel intake on a 270 poly. It's sold as a 270 hemi intake, although it will also fit 241 hemi's and the 270 poly's.

It won't fit a Dodge 315/325 though, because they have a taller deck height. But a 315/325 hemi intake will fit a 315/325 poly. It does get confusing, because you can use the 315/325 heads on a 241/270 for the larger ports and valves. The heads are the same externally, like using 360 heads on a 318. You'd still use the intake from a 241/270.

Same for the Chryslers, sort of. A 301 poly can use a 331/354/392 intake. And that last one is where it gets weird. The 392's had taller decks, but they added extra material onto the intake side of the head so the intakes were the same regardless of the deck height (unlike the Dodge's). Unless, of course, you put 392 heads on a 301/331/354 block, in which case you have issues. Or, if you put 301/331/354 heads on a 392, because then you need spacers for the intake. The latter is pretty popular, because a lot of folks think the '55 331 heads were actually the best one's made. So, you end up with '55 331 heads on 392's, and then you need intake spacers. Or to run log manifolds like the 6x2's or 8x2's, doesn't matter on them, you just need longer hoses to connect the logs.
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That's what I love about Chrysler. I would have guessed they would do that, but It is nice to know for sure. I have a Chrysler 354 Hemi, and I knew you could just install hemi heads if one had an early Poly, keeping the "families" in mind. Knowing you can get a 4 barrel intake should open a lot of possibilities for anyone with an early Poly. Thanks for the Info!
 
66fs said:
That's what I love about Chrysler. I would have guessed they would do that, but It is nice to know for sure. I have a Chrysler 354 Hemi, and I knew you could just install hemi heads if one had an early Poly, keeping the "families" in mind. Knowing you can get a 4 barrel intake should open a lot of possibilities for anyone with an early Poly. Thanks for the Info!
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Yeah it makes it a lot easier. I know I was chasing issues all over our '55 coronet and its 270 poly when it had the original worn out 2 barrel on it. I put that Offy 4 barrel manifold and an Eddy 500cfm carb on it and voila, ran like a champ. Dropped in a LA 318 distributor too, the 241/270 engines have the same deck height at a 318, so the later dizzy's drop right in, no modifications needed. You can use the later dizzy's on the Chrysler's and DeSoto's too, but the deck height is different so you need to use a different length distributor shaft, or adapt it.
 
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