1963 Dart seat belts

[Mineallmine]

I tried posting this question in the interiors section but had no luck whatsoever so I figured I'd try here and hopefully someone can help me out with this.

I am trying to order seat belts for my 63 Dart but am having trouble determining what length to order. I found sets for a 64 (front) but they are different. The mounting holes on a 64 and up are on the sides of the tunnel and the rocker, while the 63 has them on the flat of the floor behind the seat.

I don't want to order a set that is too short and at the same time I don't want a set that is way too long. Has anyone put a set into an 63 A-Body and remember what you ordered? Figuring on ordering the regular aircraft style buckle lap belts for the front and rear.

I attached pictures showing where the factory 63 seat belt mounting locations are.

Thanks in advance

 

[Murray]

In 1962 the Federal government mandated that all new cars must have mounting points for front seat belts. No seat belts just mounting points, you bought your own belts if you wanted. Seat belt usage was just developing as evidenced by the changing mounting locations. Any seat belts found on a 1963 would probably be an aftermarket universal type. You should be able to mock up a seat and measure.

 

[Professor Fate]

Bench or buckets? Factory slip-style, or later retractor type belts? Just lap belts, or a three-point conversion? It all makes a difference. If you're using the slip-adjustment style, the adjustable half mounts towards the inside; if you use the retractor style, they mount towards the outside.
For the sake of simplicity, I'll explain slip-type factory style lap belts; if you're using something different it should be somewhat self-explanatory- just switch some measurements around.
If bench, put in the seat. If buckets, mount the driver's seat. Adjust it all the way forward. Now measure from the outside hole (nearest the door) to the joint of the seat cushion/seat back. This will be your belt length for the non-adjustable side of the belt. Now, while sitting in the seat, measure from the inside (nearest the tunnel) mounting hole, across your lap to the approximate location that you measured for the end of the other belt. This will give you the approximate MINIMUM length for your adjustable side of the belt. This must be done with the seat all the way forward, otherwise you could potentially run out of adjustable length.
Passenger side should just be a mirror of your driver's side measurements.
It should end up something like this:
Slip:

Retractor:

If using retractor belts, the outer belt becomes your "adjustable" measurement.
The rear belts are easy, since the seat is stationary. Mount the seat bottom, and measure from the outer mounting hole to a place that gives you about 4" or so of access to the buckle. This is your fixed length. Measure from the intside hole, over your lap to the approximate point of your buckle. This is your minimum adjustable length. If you're going to do 3-across seating, the two center mounts do double duty for the additional belts, they just utilize bolts with a slightly longer shoulder to accommodate 2 belt brackets.

 

[Keith Mopar]

I used a universal seatbelt kit
Universal Lap Belt, 60" with Chrome Lift Latch - Color: (1) 3124278 Maroon
You can get them from seatbelt plus in lots of colors if you don't like black. Lap Seat Belt - 60 Inch - Chrome Lift Latch

I was able to fit the seat belts into the original retractor cover with an original retractor I pulled from a 66 Barracuda.

 

[Mineallmine]

Thanks for all the tips and great info. I guess I should have stated my question a little better.

I do know how to do the measurement for the seat belts. I am planning on running the original style lap belt. It will probably be the aircraft style buckle. Have looked at seat belts plus and am considering them along with a couple others.

I do not have provisions for 3 point belts either and don't plan to modify for them.

The question I was asking was if anyone had already gone through this with the 63 specifically (due to the different location of the mounting points than the 64+). I am still finishing up installing carpet and finishing touches on the interior so I currently do not have the front or rear seats installed at the moment. My hope was that someone already had gone through this and I could get a measurement so I knew what size to order so I could be ahead of the game and have them ready once the seats went in (or at least on the way).

Keith Mopar, thanks for the measurement you used. I would think it is pretty close to what I would need. Maybe add an inch or 2 to compensate for the floor mount vs tunnel/rocker mount. Did you order the same size for the rear seat? Either that or I will push this weekend to at least get the front seat in briefly and make measurements and get them ordered, then remove the seat and finish up.

I will keep everyone posted on my results and the install.

 

[Keith Mopar]

Yes I have the same 60" belts front and rear, My car did not come with any mounting holes in the back so I tried to copy the stock location from a 66 friends barracuda and I also purchased the installation hardware kit for the rear. There is also a fair bit of room left for adjustment for size.

 

[slantsixdan]

Another/better option, if you're feeling ambitious: read this.

 

[Dave999]

Australian A body seat belts will work,
they had the buckle/clasp stalk mounted to the flat floor. mainly becase they never progressed further than the mid 60s A Body automatic trans floor pan and tunnel.
later cars just had that pressing adjusted on the production line with a grinder a hammer and a weld in T shaped section to allow fitmnet of bigger transmissions than the old 3 speed manual or small block 904 i.e the 6 cylinder A Body 60s floor was used for all cars 225 - 360 v8

you need 12 -16 inch stalks.
you mount the one for the driver in the passenger rear seat well, with the button/clasp end orientated appropriately for driver use. and the one for the front passenger in the the rear seat well behind the driver.
the stalks cross at the tunnel and the clasp/bukkle part ends up at the seat squab/back corner, for each front seat. or passes through the gap in the bench set.

lap strap for buddy seat or middle passneger on bench uses same mount and is just webbing.

if the upper mount is in the roof rail you need drop links so the belt doesn't cut into your neck

take a look here Seatbelts - ADR Approved
find a set appripriate for either coupe/charger or B pillar upper mount for sedan and 4 door pillar type cars
then find a US supplier of similar.

you can use these drop links to make any sedan belt work in a coupe pillarless hardtop with the upper mount in the roof rail. the metal loops are big engough to allow you to stuff the lower mount and buckle/tongue through the loop. i.e perfect for instalation of any belt in a car with a roof rail upper mounting

SEAT BELT DROP LINK 250mm

worth visiting link just to get copies of the documents on fitting, us them to illustrate to local supplier what you want to achieve

for the rear you need horizontal parcel shelf mount belts
and an extension bracket to move the reel far enough forward from the rear window to fit. i.e the mounting is for a fixed belt and is tucked right into the corner by C pillar and rear screen.
Australian/UK/Euro and US standards for belts are aligned.

Dave

 

[Mineallmine]

Ok, So I think I have the belts sorted for length. Question I have now is where the outboard seatbelt gets mounted. I found the inner dimple but am unable to figure out where the outer seatbelt gets mounted. I have sound deadener installed so its more difficult to look around and I really dont want to randomly drill a hole and wind up being way off location. Thanks for all the help

 

[65 Cuda 340]

In 63 (and 62 I believe), the seat belts did not bolt directly to the floor as they did in later years. Instead, a round metal loop screwed into the floor, and the belt end hooked to the loop. That's why the mounting points are in different places. I'd guess you could simply bolt later belts into the 63 mounting holes, but they won't sit at a correct angle on a flat floor. If you don't want to look for a set of hook-type belts, these adapters (Jeg's) will work,

Or, if you can sew, this will also work and look almost original.

Apologies if you already know all this.

 

[Mineallmine]

I absolutely did not know this. This is exactly the information in looking for and what I love this forum. Lots of great information. I did know (after looking at lots of posts and pictures on here) that the rear outboard belt on some showed the hook style. Did not know what years but figured earlier. Never considered the angle to the floor in the front with a regular style belt.

Would I need these brackets in the rear as well?

 

[65 Cuda 340]

I'm not running rear belts, so can't help you there, although I'd guess the rear belts would have a similar attachment as the front.

I bought the belts for my 63 Valiant off ebay 20 years ago, from a Ford parts company. Just looked at their web site, and they don't appear to carry those belts anymore. Not sure where you might find some, although you could use the kit in the lower pic and sew whatever belts you have onto the hooks. Here's what my "Ford" belts look like:

 

[Mineallmine]

In 63 (and 62 I believe), the seat belts did not bolt directly to the floor as they did in later years. Instead, a round metal loop screwed into the floor, and the belt end hooked to the loop. That's why the mounting points are in different places. I'd guess you could simply bolt later belts into the 63 mounting holes, but they won't sit at a correct angle on a flat floor. If you don't want to look for a set of hook-type belts, these adapters (Jeg's) will work,

View attachment 1716079732

Or, if you can sew, this will also work and look almost original.

View attachment 1716079733

Apologies if you already know all this.

Thanks for the tip on the brackets. As I am A: I a rush to get this finished and B: Cheap, I decided to make my own as it would take a week or two plus close to $200 delivered to canada for a set of 8. I have material and access to the proper equipment so away I went. Got all 8 cut, bent and pre-drilled. One I finished. Just needs primer and paint. I went heavier material and thicker around the holes so I have no concerns on strength of these.

Just have to pick up some cad plated grade 8 bolts and I/m good to go.

 

[Mineallmine]

Update: So as I mentioned, I made my own brackets to mount to the floor. This worked out really well. I did a bunch of reading and found what seemed to be the consensus on where the rear seat belts mount. I drilled holes in the same locations. I also used 60" belts for the rear and they are a good length. I did have the belts pointing straight up from the bracket on the outboard brackets but they interfered with the lower seat going into place so I tilted them inboard a few millimeters (not much) and they cleared good. Will see if they work as well in the front. I mounted the brackets to the floor in the front in the original locations utilizing the factory mounting points with grade 8 cad plated bolts (both for corrosion protection and aesthetic reasons. I like the contrast). I will update after I get the front bench in place and the belts fitted to show results.

Hopefully this helps with anyone else doing this install.