1965 Dodge Dart Charger

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Dome lights: One in the middle of the roof of a sedan or wagon, two in the C-pillars of deluxe hardtops such as Dart GTs and the like. The red-interior car you show is not an A-body.

Doom lights: Don't know, never had a car so equipped.
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The seat pattern and the quarter window arrangement from the red interior car looks to be a 65 Dart GT hardtop.
 
Thanks for all the goodies. I found some nice info there!

Today theinterliners showed up. I was pretty sure that the were molded in a certain way but it was just a simple rubber interliner!

The profile was ok but they were tuff to add to the metal strip. But atfer a while they look as new. Now I just tneed two more rubber interliners!

Yesterday I left the transmission to a friend of mine that has a transmission shop. He is one of seven in the world who can tell manufacturers to improve the transmission and they do it!! So I think he know what he's doing. After some chat and a cup of coffee with started talking about the rear axle. He wondered if I needed to restore it and if I had the tools. He was very interested how I was going to disassemble the axle. Just before I took off he said that if I needed tolls for the 7 1/4 rear axle he had a complete set from the Swedish agent for Chrysler from the sixties!!!!!! He got it from them when they closed down. Coincidence or what!! This is how they look.

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I started to take apart the rear end today. The differential was worned so I changed all four pinions incl washers and the pin. It vent perfect and now I'm just waiting for the gear ratio 3,23:1 to show up. I have all the bearings and all the seals so hopefully it will be ready.

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For the last 10 years there has been more and more repopped parts for the early A-bodies. Weatherstripping, mouldings, lenses, gauges, door handles, arm rest bases and antennas. Today I checked out the gas tanks. I haven't really checked into it but I thought that I needed to do that today.

If you compare the repops compare to the factory ones there are changes. And I can't get why they do it? Why don't they do them just how they were? That would save us time and money. I have bought several stuff on Ebay where they say it's factory replacement. But it's not and I need to send it back to the seller.

Anyway, enough complaints. Does anyone out there bought a new "replacement" gas tank? I need to know the know if there are differences in the repops? If you see these pictures you know what I mean.

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If you compare the repops compare to the factory ones there are changes. And I can't get why they do it? Why don't they do them just how they were?

Because this is not 1964, almost nothing is manufactured now the way it was in 1964, they are not the original manufacturer with the original tooling, and they are making a production run of several hundred rather than several hundred thousand…with all the decisions and compromises those facts entail.

That would save us time and money.

No, it would save you time and money. It would cost the rest of us time and money. Most buyers of replacement gas tanks do not care if the seam crimp is of a slightly different shape, or if a random string of letters and numbers that was present on the original tank where nobody ever cared to look is not present on the replacement. Most buyers of replacement gas tanks have the goal of a non-leaking, clean, correct-fitting gas tank in their car, full stop. You, on the other hand, want all those things and exactly-as-original bends, stampings, markings, finish, and every other detail. Doing a reproduction part to your standard is much, much more costly and time consuming than doing it the way it's generally done. And then we could talk about the enormous licence fees it takes to put trademarked factory markings (such as a Pentastar) on a reproduction part.

I have bought several stuff on Ebay where they say it's factory replacement. But it's not

Your definition of "factory replacement" is not the same as the one most people use.

There are problems at the other end of the scale, to be sure, where "reproduction" parts are pathetic halfassed copies. But those repro gas tanks are made for the 99.9% of buyers who do not care the way you do. Your way isn't wrong, it's just much less common and much more expensive.

Next question?
 
Because this is not 1964, almost nothing is manufactured now the way it was in 1964, they are not the original manufacturer with the original tooling, and they are making a production run of several hundred rather than several hundred thousand…with all the decisions and compromises those facts entail.



No, it would save you time and money. It would cost the rest of us time and money. Most buyers of replacement gas tanks do not care if the seam crimp is of a slightly different shape, or if a random string of letters and numbers that was present on the original tank where nobody ever cared to look is not present on the replacement. Most buyers of replacement gas tanks have the goal of a non-leaking, clean, correct-fitting gas tank in their car, full stop. You, on the other hand, want all those things and exactly-as-original bends, stampings, markings, finish, and every other detail. Doing a reproduction part to your standard is much, much more costly and time consuming than doing it the way it's generally done. And then we could talk about the enormous licence fees it takes to put trademarked factory markings (such as a Pentastar) on a reproduction part.



Your definition of "factory replacement" is not the same as the one most people use.

There are problems at the other end of the scale, to be sure, where "reproduction" parts are pathetic halfassed copies. But those repro gas tanks are made for the 99.9% of buyers who do not care the way you do. Your way isn't wrong, it's just much less common and much more expensive.

Next question?

I agree with you Dan in a way. For the most restorations the parts that are remanufactured is great. I agree with you on that. The same for licencing fees, I know that they pay alot of money for that to Chrysler.

Well, I guess an NOS one would do it then.
 
I was pretty sure until last night that all the starters on the Chrysler smallblock were painted semi-gloss black after they were assembled. Last night a guy from New York called me about some other things and said that the starters were only painted on the startes frame where the linings are. He was sure they did it after 1968 and though that was done from 1960. The rest were left natural. Any comments is very much appriciated.

The front grease huds on the brake drums, should they be painted?

Should the front yoke and the cover be painted on the rear axle?

Thanks for any input.
 

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I am pretty sure the grease/dust covers on the front hubs were left bare and not painted, not positive but haven't seen many with paint before unless the owner did it with a wheel swap and it was showing.
 
I was pretty sure until last night that all the starters on the Chrysler smallblock were painted semi-gloss black after they were assembled. Last night a guy from New York called me about some other things and said that the starters were only painted on the startes frame where the linings are. He was sure they did it after 1968 and though that was done from 1960. The rest were left natural.

Your guy from New York sounds as if he is taking what he has seen one or two or a dozen times and inappropriately generalizing it to all cases. In the first place, the starter in question (Chrysler gear-reduction) did not exist in 1960. It didn't exist until 1962. Secondly, I have seen what might be considered an unusually large number of original '62-'86 starters on very-low-miles original cars (and NOS items), and while I have seen the paint configuration Mister New York describes (round steel field frame and rear cover plate painted semi-gloss black, aluminum gear housing unpainted), I have also seen the configuration I previously described (entire starter, more or less, painted semi-gloss black). The earlier starters, '62 through '67ish, in my observation are more likely to be more or less fully painted. The later starters, about '66ish on up, are more likely to be painted only on the field frame. And sometime in the late mid '70s, completely unpainted starters began to show up.

Wheel bearing grease caps: Plated as shown. Not painted.
 
66340SEDAN
I am pretty sure the grease/dust covers on the front hubs were left bare and not painted, not positive but haven't seen many with paint before unless the owner did it with a wheel swap and it was showing.

slantsixdan
Your guy from New York sounds as if he is taking what he has seen one or two or a dozen times and inappropriately generalizing it to all cases. In the first place, the starter in question (Chrysler gear-reduction) did not exist in 1960. It didn't exist until 1962. Secondly, I have seen what might be considered an unusually large number of original '62-'86 starters on very-low-miles original cars (and NOS items), and while I have seen the paint configuration Mister New York describes (round steel field frame and rear cover plate painted semi-gloss black, aluminum gear housing unpainted), I have also seen the configuration I previously described (entire starter, more or less, painted semi-gloss black). The earlier starters, '62 through '67ish, in my observation are more likely to be more or less fully painted. The later starters, about '66ish on up, are more likely to be painted only on the field frame. And sometime in the late mid '70s, completely unpainted starters began to show up.

Wheel bearing grease caps: Plated as shown. Not painted.


Thanks guys for the input. This is why FABO is the place to be in the world of A-bodies. Thanks again
 
I did some serious glass beading on the starter body. It turned out new!

No, it didn't. It turned out glass beaded, with a grainy surface finish rather than the glass-smooth die cast surface finish the pinion housing had from the factory. Ordinarily I wouldn't raise such a picky matter, but with the level of detail correctness you are requiring of each and every part of your car, it seems worth mentioning. Fortunately, the semigloss black paint which yes, would very much more than likely have covered not just the round steel field frame and round rear cover cap but also the aluminum pinion housing and the steel gear case cover and the externally-visible portion of the bakelite brush plate will hide the grainy texture while letting the casting marks show through.
 
No, it didn't. It turned out glass beaded, with a grainy surface finish rather than the glass-smooth die cast surface finish the pinion housing had from the factory. Ordinarily I wouldn't raise such a picky matter, but with the level of detail correctness you are requiring of each and every part of your car, it seems worth mentioning. Fortunately, the semigloss black paint which yes, would very much more than likely have covered not just the round steel field frame and round rear cover cap but also the aluminum pinion housing and the steel gear case cover and the externally-visible portion of the bakelite brush plate will hide the grainy texture while letting the casting marks show through.

Dan! Do you think I should go for a NOS aluminum case and forget about this one? I have searched for years and never found any correct date coded body. 68 and newer is possible to find but from 1964! I found one from 1962 one time but the aluminum was corroded so that was not the way to go. I think they will be hard to find and if you do it might need some glass beading to get the orginal finish. What's your opinion?
 
My opinion: Assemble the starter, apply a twist of masking tape around the two terminals, shoot the whole starter semigloss black, and nobody who hasn't read this thread will ever know or be able to detect the glass beading! Seriously, that is my recommendation.
 
Thanks Dan! I guess that's the way to go. Hopefully some day I found a new one.

Started with the torsion bars tonight. They seems to be in great condition, not bent, no scraches etc. All the numbers are there as well.

Usually the bars are casted the same day. But in this case the left side is done week 01 of 1965 and the right side week 29 of 1964. The number 624 and 625 is the last three digits in the partnumber.

Partnumber 2071625 left side std
Partnumber 2071624 right side std

The paint markings is olive in color and about 12 inch from the end on the right side and 10 inch on the left side. Two markings for the left sideand one markings for the right side.
 

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Just a thought. you mentioned that the parts usually cast on the same day. I work in a large shipbuilding foundry and these days opposing parts are not usually, and i repeat Usually not cast at the same time. It foundries in the 1960's followed the same practices as we do now, I would guess that is the reason for the difference in the date. Of course, as long as it cast before the build date, you are good to go. Also you said that the paint appears to be Olive in color. I would take a piece of Scotchbrite and scuff it to get to fresh paint. Just thinking that the color has faded and tinted from grease over the last 40 years. It could be white. White paint with grease on it for 40 years might look like olive color now. Just a thought. Awesome work you are doing....
 
Just a thought. you mentioned that the parts usually cast on the same day. I work in a large shipbuilding foundry and these days opposing parts are not usually, and i repeat Usually not cast at the same time. It foundries in the 1960's followed the same practices as we do now, I would guess that is the reason for the difference in the date. Of course, as long as it cast before the build date, you are good to go. Also you said that the paint appears to be Olive in color. I would take a piece of Scotchbrite and scuff it to get to fresh paint. Just thinking that the color has faded and tinted from grease over the last 40 years. It could be white. White paint with grease on it for 40 years might look like olive color now. Just a thought. Awesome work you are doing....

Thanks for the nice comments. I have searched through probably at least 100s of early A-bodies and most of them are close in casting even if I have seen big differences. And for those times I think you are right.

I guess that there are alot of circumstances for the reason thst there are big differences. But on this car most of thr casting dates has been close.

Re the makings I will follow your trick. Great idea. Thanks.
 
Thanks Dan! I guess that's the way to go. Hopefully some day I found a new one.

Started with the torsion bars tonight. They seems to be in great condition, not bent, no scraches etc. All the numbers are there as well.

Usually the bars are casted the same day. But in this case the left side is done week 01 of 1965 and the right side week 29 of 1964. The number 624 and 625 is the last three digits in the partnumber.

Partnumber 2071625 left side std
Partnumber 2071624 right side std

The paint markings is olive in color and about 12 inch from the end on the right side and 10 inch on the left side. Two markings for the left sideand one markings for the right side.


as far as that starter goes I don't think I would follow dan's advice, sure he is very very knowledgable but IMO what it really comes down to is looks,

I would paint the starter motor housing and leave the aluminum part as is or slightly polish it to take the glass bead look out then clear coat it to make sure it doesn't corrode, or go with a nos one if you wish but it looks great to me IMO

thats my 2 cents!
 
as far as that starter goes I don't think I would follow dan's advice, sure he is very very knowledgable but IMO what it really comes down to is looks,

I would paint the starter motor housing and leave the aluminum part as is or slightly polish it to take the glass bead look out then clear coat it to make sure it doesn't corrode, or go with a nos one if you wish but it looks great to me IMO

thats my 2 cents!


On a restoration like this the only "Look" that matters is the correct look.

If the factory hosed the entire thing down with some crappy black paint, that is the correct look.

Cosmetic appeal doesn't really matter.
 
On a restoration like this the only "Look" that matters is the correct look.

If the factory hosed the entire thing down with some crappy black paint, that is the correct look.

Cosmetic appeal doesn't really matter.


well I can tell you this, he isn't going to be getting a correct look from the starter being glass beaded unless he does some serious cleaning with emery cloth or 1500 wet sand paper
 
Thanks guy for the comments. One of the problems with this restoration is that some parts are hard to get a correct look. Of cause, the best work will not take away a NOS or a factory part. But as close as possible is the goal.

I stopped by the school that are doing the paint job. I did somework with the teachers to lower the body to the right cart so this one will make the next level of work easier.

Was there a special sealer between the rocker panel and the quarter panel?

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