1965 valiant 225 timing issues.

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frige

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Hey guys long time lurker but never post. I need a little help. My daughters 65 valiant is hard to start and shakes. So Im going through the motions. Rebuilt the carb several times thinking it must have a blockage but at this point no way. So attacking ignition. Had old points so I installed electronic ignition and new hot coil. Trying to check timing is very difficult and makes me want to throw things. The timing tab is on the drivers side under the a/c compressor. Very hard for me to see. It seems the mark is to the left of the 0. The distributor is turned all the ways ccw. If I turn it clockwise I lose the mark. I see people talking about 12-16 degrees but I dont know how to figure out where that is.

HELP!
 
First, you might want to remove the timing tab, clean it, and paint it to highlight the marks. Makes things a lot easier. Is this a slant six or V8?
 
MadScientistMat said:
First, you might want to remove the timing tab, clean it, and paint it to highlight the marks. Makes things a lot easier. Is this a slant six or V8?
Click to expand...
The title of the thread: "1965 valiant 225 timing issues".
 
Oops, somehow missed that. For a slant six, there are two adjustment screws for the distributor, one at each end of the bracket. So undoing the one at the end of the bracket may get you enough to reach your timing target. If it doesn't, pull out the distributor and move it one tooth.
 
MadScientistMat said:
Oops, somehow missed that. For a slant six, there are two adjustment screws for the distributor, one at each end of the bracket. So undoing the one at the end of the bracket may get you enough to reach your timing target. If it doesn't, pull out the distributor and move it one tooth.
Click to expand...
Man, you have no idea. I miss stuff in titles daily. lol Don't forget, there are two adjustments on the slant 6. One on top and also one on the bottom.
 
Found the 2 adjustments. I borrowed a timing light that has a dial on the back. With the dist all the way to the stop on the bottom it reads 12 degrees. With the new ignition it idles ok but has a little stumble from time to time. When you barely crack the throttle it falls on its face but picks back up when you rev it. Runs well once you get up to 2k rpm. I pulled a plug and they are sooted up big time so it must be rich. Very cold natured. It will barely run till it warms up. Im thinking I should run the valves but they arent clattering. Car has 96k miles and sat for a long time.
Maybe the carb has to big of a idle jet?
 
She is a cute little thing.

20210514_185739.jpg
 
Stock carb wouldn't have an idle jet, but it does have an idle mixture screw. A lot of the time a sitting carb may be gummed up, although if you can see the accelerator pump spray it may be worth just trying to use cleaner in the fuel instead of disassembling and rebuilding the carb. Have a look at the factory service manual; it covers how to set the idle speed and mixture.
 
I built the carb out of 3 different ones. I couldnt find a rebuilt one anywhere. I removed all the plugs from the passageways and soaked it in carb cleaner. Went through all the passages with air and torch tip cleaners just to make sure they weren't plugged. I made sure all the holes lined up on the gaskets. I dont think I made any mistakes these are fairly simple carbs. It does have 2 separate jets. One has a rod that raises and lowers according to vacuum. The other looks like a screw but when you pull it out it is a tiny jet. The problem seems to be when it transitions from idle to midrange. If I crack the throttle it falls on its face but picks back up when you give it more throttle. I cleaned the plugs and ran it for a while and the look nice and tan now. It might have needed to get old gas out. I flushed the tank and put new fuel in but it didnt change the issue. Idk something is going on and I just cant figure it out.
Also it likes to have the idle air screw turned way out.
 
Tough to say.

I would be heavily suspicious of a carb problem, from what you have described. Idle screw should not need to be "clear out." Carb problem or vacuum leak.

Have you run a compression test or leakdown test? Have you determined that all six are firing? One easy way to look at that, is to "rig" a grounding probe such as a jumper/ alligator clip wire to a small screwdriver, or even use a 12V test lamp. Loosen all six wires at the cap, and I used to like to slip small brads or paper clips down beside the wires in the plug wire towers, after working the boots up. Now you can go around and ground each one out and listen for change in idle, better yet use a tach. If one cylinder does not "drop" much or atall, that cylinder is "dead" either vacuum leak, compression, or a spark problem, IE bad plug, wire, or even cap problems
 
Tune-up parts and technique suggestions in this post. Carburetor operation and repair manuals and links to training movies and carb repair/modification threads are posted here for free download.
 
Thanks Dan I checked the compression yesterday. 150 on 4 cylinders the 2 front cylinders were 130 and 120. I am going to pour some marvel in them and let it sit for a bit, Hopefully a little crud stuck in the rings. Vacuum was 15 at idle. but bouncing around a bit.
 
frige said:
I need a little help. My daughters 65 valiant is hard to start and shakes.
Click to expand...
The firing order on a slanty is 153,624
And the slanty only fires 3 cylinders per revolution.
So in your case, the good cylinders 5 and 3, are dragging that deadbeat #1 around on the first revolution; then on the Second, cylinders 6 and 4 are dragging the even deader #2 around.
Then consider that 1 and 2 are on the front of the crank, and side by side.
The engine has to shake, it doesn't have a choice.
Finally
consider that the headgasket may be blown between those two cylinders. If that was the case, then the crossfeed between them will upset the carburation, as the pressure pulses between them, and up into the intake.

I strongly recommend a Leak-Down test to prove the low pressure is NOT a headgasket.
 
Well I did find a big problem with the carb. Thanks to the bbs manual I found I was missing the discharge check ball. I replaced the ball and it is acting much better. I was able to turn the idle air bleed back to about 2 turns. It is still cold natured and I have to baby it for a bit till it warms up. Plus it still shakes at idle. I picked up a cork gasket. (couldnt find a rubber one) I will adjust the valves this weekend.
 
MadScientistMat said:
Stock carb wouldn't have an idle jet, but it does have an idle mixture screw. A lot of the time a sitting carb may be gummed up, although if you can see the accelerator pump spray it may be worth just trying to use cleaner in the fuel instead of disassembling and rebuilding the carb. Have a look at the factory service manual; it covers how to set the idle speed and mixture.
Click to expand...
I gotta say it's hard to see the pump.shot on a 1920 series Holley.
 
frige said:
Hey guys long time lurker but never post. I need a little help. My daughters 65 valiant is hard to start and shakes. So Im going through the motions. Rebuilt the carb several times thinking it must have a blockage but at this point no way. So attacking ignition. Had old points so I installed electronic ignition and new hot coil. Trying to check timing is very difficult and makes me want to throw things. The timing tab is on the drivers side under the a/c compressor. Very hard for me to see. It seems the mark is to the left of the 0. The distributor is turned all the ways ccw. If I turn it clockwise I lose the mark. I see people talking about 12-16 degrees but I dont know how to figure out where that is.

HELP!
Click to expand...
Have you checked for slop in the timing chain, that can affect timing
 
cudajoedart said:
Have you checked for slop in the timing chain, that can affect timing
Click to expand...
I hope not. I hate to have to pull the motor apart.
I have been puttering around with it and I ran the valves. A lot of them were tight which I thought was weird. I also replaced the motor mounts. Did some fine tuning on the idle screw and it runs pretty good now.
I got the pcv hooked up and it cured the blow by problem. However there is a vented cap so do I need a sealed cap so the engine doesnt have a built in vacuum leak?
 
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