1967 Dart Drivetrain swap.

[Bryan R Erickson]

Hello, I'm not sure if this is the correct place for this thread but I was wondering what I will need for this swap. The car is originally a 225/auto. But under the circumstances I am swapping in a 360LA with an A body A833 and a 8 3/4 rear end from a 98 ramvan 1500. I'm looking for a shopping list per say of things I'll need for the swap and some advice from expierenced people that have done something similar. I have so far the engine, trans, rear end, z bar for the clutch linkage, shifter and shifter linkage, pilot bearing fork and clutch pedal assembly. And for the last question, for the wiring harness, is it different from the /6 to v8? I'm sure from auto to manual it is. How would one go about the reverse light issue?

 

[Professor Fate]

In addition to what you already have, you'll need conversion motor mounts, from Schumacher or TransDapt, a four-speed floor hump (part of the transmission tunnel needs to be cut away and a factory "hump" needs to be welded in. The revised floor will need new four speed specific carpeting also), the clutch linkage rods, adjusters and pivots.
That rear end is a no-go. Besides being waay too wide for an A body, much less the tiny confines of a Dart wheel well, '98 vans had a huge bolt circle- 5x5.5" if I recall correctly. And it ain't an 8 3/4, either. 8 3/4 stopped production in '72-'73, depending on car line. What you have is most likely a 8.25 or 9.25 depending on the van's weight rating.
As for the wiring, the slant uses basically the same wiring as a V8, year by year. Some of the wire lengths may need to be tweeked. The real differences are in different years, and whether you're going to be using electronic ignition, newer alternator and electronic voltage regulator, etc. That is where the differences will be.

 

[Bryan R Erickson]

In addition to what you already have, you'll need conversion motor mounts, from Schumacher or TransDapt, a four-speed floor hump (part of the transmission tunnel needs to be cut away and a factory "hump" needs to be welded in. The revised floor will need new four speed specific carpeting also), the clutch linkage rods, adjusters and pivots.
That rear end is a no-go. Besides being waay too wide for an A body, much less the tiny confines of a Dart wheel well, '98 vans had a huge bolt circle- 5x5.5" if I recall correctly. And it ain't an 8 3/4, either. 8 3/4 stopped production in '72-'73, depending on car line. What you have is most likely a 8.25 or 9.25 depending on the van's weight rating.
As for the wiring, the slant uses basically the same wiring as a V8, year by year. Some of the wire lengths may need to be tweeked. The real differences are in different years, and whether you're going to be using electronic ignition, newer alternator and electronic voltage regulator, etc. That is where the differences will be.

I'm willing to bet you're right, It's probably a 8.25 rear end, it came out of a shorty 1500. I have a shop near me that I was going to have shorten the wheel base of that rear end. I'm not too worried about the bolt pattern that rear end does have disc brakes. And I figured as much for the wiring but wanted to make sure. What about the reverse light switch? Would I be able to just splice it in off the reverse light switch on the steering column?

 

[junkyardhero]

well, you're gonna need to carry two spares for starters.

you'll need a custom built driveshaft most likely. depending on the trans it may or may not match the 904 yoke, and the carrier/u-joint for the van rear is gonna be different. (this is assuming the trans is a standard splined output unit, and not flange style)

radiator and shroud. the entry and exit for the coolant is in a different location for V8.

depending on what the motor came out of you may need a different oil pan and pick up.

i didn't see bell housing on the list.

the reverse light switch is on the transmission. i think you should be able to run from there and then just splice into the factory harness at the bulkhead. you may need the wiring diagram to figure out where to poke in at, or you could just trace the wires from the column.

 

[rbkt65]

Whether 8.25 or 9.25, the axles are c clip type. I asked Dr Diff about axles for a 9.25 and i think he told me 500.00 for the pair. Not sure the other axle makers would be able to make them. A lot of guys use 8.8 exploder or dana 60. Easier for a dana 60 as you can sell it later. My 2 cents, but i have 6 dana 60's.

 

[Bryan R Erickson]

well, you're gonna need to carry two spares for starters.

you'll need a custom built driveshaft most likely. depending on the trans it may or may not match the 904 yoke, and the carrier/u-joint for the van rear is gonna be different. (this is assuming the trans is a standard splined output unit, and not flange style)

radiator and shroud. the entry and exit for the coolant is in a different location for V8.

depending on what the motor came out of you may need a different oil pan and pick up.

i didn't see bell housing on the list.

the reverse light switch is on the transmission. i think you should be able to run from there and then just splice into the factory harness at the bulkhead. you may need the wiring diagram to figure out where to poke in at, or you could just trace the wires from the column.

Yes, apologies, I guess I assumed it was a given to have the bell housing with the trans. It's an A833 out of an A body that had a 360Mag, I'm unsure of the year but does have the standard spline output. And I do have the yoke for it. Found one off ebay.

The motor is coming out of a 77 B300. I haven't taken it out yet but thank you for pointing out the oil pan and pick up, I'll add that to my list.

I do have a V8 radiator in the car already from when I built the /6, I over sized it because it's gets hot here in the south.

As for the wheels, I was actually going to get some wheel adapters for the pattern size if possible and configure them into the width of the rear axle seems how it'd have to be cut any how.

If I'm not mistaken I have to get special headers to fit the A bodies correct?

 

[Bryan R Erickson]

Whether 8.25 or 9.25, the axles are c clip type. I asked Dr Diff about axles for a 9.25 and i think he told me 500.00 for the pair. Not sure the other axle makers would be able to make them. A lot of guys use 8.8 exploder or dana 60. Easier for a dana 60 as you can sell it later. My 2 cents, but i have 6 dana 60's.

I'm not sure what you mean by easier? Easier to shorten?

 

[junkyardhero]

Yes, apologies, I guess I assumed it was a given to have the bell housing with the trans. It's an A833 out of an A body that had a 360Mag, I'm unsure of the year but does have the standard spline output. And I do have the yoke for it. Found one off ebay.

The motor is coming out of a 77 B300. I haven't taken it out yet but thank you for pointing out the oil pan and pick up, I'll add that to my list.

I do have a V8 radiator in the car already from when I built the /6, I over sized it because it's gets hot here in the south.

As for the wheels, I was actually going to get some wheel adapters for the pattern size if possible and configure them into the width of the rear axle seems how it'd have to be cut any how.

If I'm not mistaken I have to get special headers to fit the A bodies correct?

you'll need a flywheel specific to the 70's era 360, it's different than the magnum.
make sure that the crank on the van motor is drilled for a pilot bearing

you *might* get away with the radiator I/O location on the hoses, but do take note of it. especially the upper might be very close if you're using big diameter clutch fan from the van.

i loathe wheel adapters, so you're on your own there. 100% the axle will have to be narrowed. to me, unless you're getting a smoking deal on that work there's better options out back that provide many, better, positive outcomes: same bolt pattern, weight, serviceability, parts availability. but that's up to you to decide.

exhaust: dougs or TTI fit the best but are also the most expensive. pay less and wrestle a basket of snakes if you roll that way. if you have smog ports you'll need to address that issue by plugging them if the header flange & gasket don't seal that area (however it's good practice to plug them even so).

 

[rbkt65]

If you use an 8.8, you will have to buy another short axle and then have someone shorten the long side tube to match the short side tube. "Easier" for me as me as I have done it lots of times and have the jig to do it. I have seen guys do an 8.8, and most have been a cluster f^&k. They just cut the longer tube and butt weld them together. Have also seen the opposite, that has been done very nicely. Up to you and your pocket book.

 

[Bryan R Erickson]

you'll need a flywheel specific to the 70's era 360, it's different than the magnum.
make sure that the crank on the van motor is drilled for a pilot bearing

you *might* get away with the radiator I/O location on the hoses, but do take note of it. especially the upper might be very close if you're using big diameter clutch fan from the van.

i loathe wheel adapters, so you're on your own there. 100% the axle will have to be narrowed. to me, unless you're getting a smoking deal on that work there's better options out back that provide many, better, positive outcomes: same bolt pattern, weight, serviceability, parts availability. but that's up to you to decide.

exhaust: dougs or TTI fit the best but are also the most expensive. pay less and wrestle a basket of snakes if you roll that way. if you have smog ports you'll need to address that issue by plugging them if the header flange & gasket don't seal that area (however it's good practice to plug them even so).

Yeah, I've been thinking about the wheel adapters and been looking. I can't even find any for that size. I guess I'll just have to go a different route for the rear axle.

 

[Bryan R Erickson]

you'll need a flywheel specific to the 70's era 360, it's different than the magnum.
make sure that the crank on the van motor is drilled for a pilot bearing

you *might* get away with the radiator I/O location on the hoses, but do take note of it. especially the upper might be very close if you're using big diameter clutch fan from the van.

i loathe wheel adapters, so you're on your own there. 100% the axle will have to be narrowed. to me, unless you're getting a smoking deal on that work there's better options out back that provide many, better, positive outcomes: same bolt pattern, weight, serviceability, parts availability. but that's up to you to decide.

exhaust: dougs or TTI fit the best but are also the most expensive. pay less and wrestle a basket of snakes if you roll that way. if you have smog ports you'll need to address that issue by plugging them if the header flange & gasket don't seal that area (however it's good practice to plug them even so).

What would you recomend for a rear end? I see someone recomended the Ford 8.8 but I'm not sure how I feel about using a ford rear end in my Dodge. But I'd keep that option open.

 

[junkyardhero]

What would you recomend for a rear end? I see someone recomended the Ford 8.8 but I'm not sure how I feel about using a ford rear end in my Dodge. But I'd keep that option open.

i'm going to assume you'll want to be big bolt pattern (5X4.5) because it would match the most available and popular front disc brake pattern.

it depends on your criteria. how do you plan to use the car (street, street/strip with big tires & a lot of power, lots of drag racing, autoX or road solo, cruiser), are disc brakes a must, gear ratio (is LSD a must), are you able to do the modifications to the axle if necessary or will you have to farm that out/pay for it, and the biggest one: budget

if you're starting from zero, putting a mopar axle under your car will be the most expensive, bar none.

an 8.25 from 73~76 a-body is a bolt in and has drum brakes, this is probably the most affordable. gears sets and sure grip units are widely available and there are some (very few) disc brake options.

an 8.75 from 65~72 a-body is a direct bolt in and about the most expensive path. tons of options for gears and disc brakes, as well as aftermarket support-- the axles will need to be changed to BBP. you can also utilize 8.75's from vans, trucks or larger cars by relocating the spring perches, narrowing the housing, and axles or getting new axles. or you can open up the catalog and press the easy button and order brand new one spec'd to your desire at a credit card melting 5K (dana 60's and 9" run about the same, fyi)

for discs and an LSD, the explorer 8.8 is the absolute cheapest game in town. it's strong enough for general use, parts availability out the wazoo, and you can still pick them up pretty reasonably. obviously some modifications are in order.

some rangers also have 8.8's that are near bolt in affairs, but you'll need to carefully consider wheel fitment. disc brakes can get a little spendy, but there's diy options. mustang's offer some options as well, but again, modifications will need to be made. the benefit is that they're available and cheap. the same goes for 9" units, but you get strength and virtually ulimited choices in aftermarket disc brakes and gears.

i'm sure there's other, more arcane swaps out there but these are the more known and popular ones.

basically it comes down to: how strong do you need it to be, how much money do you have and do you want disc brakes.