1974 Duster not starting.

-
A

Aces

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2013
Messages
117
Reaction score
1
Location
Colorado, Western Slope
Last week we went out to start the car and when you'd turn the key nothing would happen.
The headlights still come on and you can get that engine to turnover by messing with the starter relay. Only one wire running up the steering column is "hot", when we looked at the ignition switch all the wires seemed to have good connections to it and were not in poor condition. Not sure what is causing this, any ideas?

-Aces
 
1. check to see if the neutral safety is causing it buy holding the key in the start position and move the shifter through the gears. (keep your foot on the brake during this)
2. You mentioned it cranks with the relay, but does it start with the relay jumpering?
3. I there power at the coil pos side (test lamp)

Lets start with this and go from there.
 
YOU MAY HAVE the deadly "seat belt interlock." Whether this is the problem or not you need to bypass it. Find the two yellow // yellow tracer wires in the connector, and splice them together

Here:

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?p=1969624169

and......

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=14304

HOW THESE WORK

You have two "push on" connectors on the starter relay. These can actually be swapped around electrically. These are the magnetic coil of the relay

One terminal "receives" "start" signal from the key. This comes out of the ignition switch, through the bulkhead IN SERIES WITH the interlock if you have it, and to one of the two 'push on' relay terminals

The remaining relay terminal goes down over the transmission and connects to the three terminal neutral safety / reverse light switch. Connects to the center terminal which goes to ground in park or neutral

HOLD THE KEY in start. Wiggle the shifter from neutral to park. Any click? Try to crank?

Identify the wire going down the firewall from the relay to the NSS switch. Pull that wire off. Ground that relay terminal with a clip lead. Try to crank it

If not, use a light or meter and see if the REMAINING wire is powered with key twisted to start

And......above all else, bypass the seat belt interlock
 
I am currently not at home but will do these when I get back. I have already did the "Hold key in start and wiggle shifter from neutral to park, it did not try to crank and I don't remember hearing a click. I also don't have the original seat belts if that makes any difference with the "seat belt interlock."
 
Aces said:
. I also don't have the original seat belts if that makes any difference with the "seat belt interlock."
Click to expand...

That would depend. On how you or someone bypassed the system. If the relay box is still under the hood and has not been bypassed, that is the VERY FIRST place I'd start.
 
1qHYkX8.jpg
Is this what you were talking about?
 
THAT'S IT. Connect the two "yellowish" wires together before you do anything else. This might not be the trouble, but it "will" be later on. Read the threads I posted earlier
 
tGJU1fo.jpg
So this is how I ended up doing it, I had to add some additional wire since I cut it a bit to short. The car still does not start.
 
OK, now........go do this

67Dart273 said:
...................

You have two "push on" connectors on the starter relay. These can actually be swapped around electrically. These are the magnetic coil of the relay

One terminal "receives" "start" signal from the key. This comes out of the ignition switch, through the bulkhead IN SERIES WITH the interlock if you have it, and to one of the two 'push on' relay terminals

The remaining relay terminal goes down over the transmission and connects to the three terminal neutral safety / reverse light switch. Connects to the center terminal which goes to ground in park or neutral

HOLD THE KEY in start. Wiggle the shifter from neutral to park. Any click? Try to crank?

Identify the wire going down the firewall from the relay to the NSS switch. Pull that wire off. Ground that relay terminal with a clip lead. Try to crank it

If not, use a light or meter and see if the REMAINING wire is powered with key twisted to start
Click to expand...
 
Aces said:
Which part of that do you want me to do? The Wiggle shifter from neutral to park?
Click to expand...

Follow the steps, each one. Here's what you are doing.........

Wiggle the shifter shows that the key is feeding the relay, the relay is probably good, and that the NSS is bad or the shift linkage out of adjustment

If wiggling does nothing you need to figure out whether it's on the "ground side" of the relay........use the clip lead test........

or not getting start voltage, or the relay is bad

This is a SIMPLE circuit. It is electrics one - oh - one

The key heats up the yellow wire. It goes through the bulkhead. It goes through the reset relay which you have bypassed. It feeds to the start relay. It goes through the magnet coil of the relay and "out" the remaining quick connect terminal

The start relay cannot pull in unless the neutral safety switch is "at ground," and that wire is "good." So from the remaining relay terminal, it goes down the transmission to the center pin on the switch. If the switch is good, if everything is hooked up, if the linkage is adjusted right, and it's either in park or neutral, it will crank..................................

Unless the relay is bad.
 
Ok, so I got no results from the attempts to start in either park or neutral. Could you link me the clip lead test?

Thanks.
 
Corrosion between starter case and bellhousing? or sticking starter brushes? Have a helper handle the key procedure as outlined by 67Dart, while you tap the starter case with a hammer. I said tap.Try not to bang your head on anything due to the startle factor, if it works."Wiring one oh one". 67 Dart is bang on.
 
Hey guys, so I have taken a break from working on the car, I decided I'd like to get it done before winter.
So far what I've done most of the steps move such as the turn key and go threw gears, bypasses the seat belt interlock.
A few info I've saw about it is that on the fuse box only Fuses number 7 and 8 are getting power.

-Aces
 
What fuses are they?

There are THREE power sources coming INTO the fuse panel

Some of the fuses are "hot" all the time

Some are "hot" only with key in "run" or "accessory"

And last, the instrument fuse---at one end of the panel, only gets power if the tail light circuit is turned on and working, and if the dash lamp dimmer is twisted far enough to light up the dash.
 
67Dart273 said:
What fuses are they?

There are THREE power sources coming INTO the fuse panel

Some of the fuses are "hot" all the time

Some are "hot" only with key in "run" or "accessory"

And last, the instrument fuse---at one end of the panel, only gets power if the tail light circuit is turned on and working, and if the dash lamp dimmer is twisted far enough to light up the dash.
Click to expand...

Hm, when I put the key into the "On" position and than try to start it nothing on the fusebox changes power wise. By "What Fuses are they" i'm not 100% sure how to describe them, one has a thin metal line in it while the other has a rather large metal line in it, both are circle type of fuses. I can get a picture of them if needed.
 
67Dart273 said:
Look in your shop manual. "What fuses are they."
Click to expand...

I looked around today and couldn't find our old shop manual.
But they are the circle glass fuses.
Ones of the fuses has A36 on it I think, they all have A something on them.
I will look more at them tomorrow.
 
67Dart273 said:
You misunderstood. Which fuse "in the panel" are they?

You can download a shop manual for free, here:

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?p=1970088617

and more manuals and more info here

http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=31

This will tell you whether the "hot buss" is alive or dead, and by turning the key on / off, whether the "accessory" buss is alive or dead.
Click to expand...

I looked threw both those links and did not find a 74 manual. Not sure if a 73 or older would be of any help, I but on the fuse box, fuse's number's 7 and 8 are the only ones that are getting power currently, I would guess the rest are not getting power as the car will not start. I can put the key in any postion and non of the fuses besides 7 and 8 get power.

Sorry if some of what i'm saying is not what you are asking for.

-Aces
 
Thsi sub-page has your '74 scematic; you just did not go down far enough in the layers:
http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=28

'A' on the fuse may be something like 'AGC' which is a style of fuse. What you really want to know the the '5A' or '15A', which stands for 5 amps or 15 amps or however many amps the fuse is rated for.

If you have 2 fues only with power try the folowing 2 things: If the horn works, and if the brake lights work, then those 2 fuses are likely for those circuits (plus several others that hang off of the same fuse as the brake lights). Power into these 2 fuses are not switched by the ignition circuit; they are hot all the time.

There are 3 fuses together on the other half of the fuse block that should have power when the key is in the ON position. (Check both sides of each fuse BTW). If you are not getting this to happen, then likely you ignition switch itself is bad or the connections up in the column or the power is not getting to the ignition switch. You should have power to the RED wire to the ignition siwtch all the time. Is that the case?
 
nm9stheham said:
Thsi sub-page has your '74 scematic; you just did not go down far enough in the layers:
http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=28

'A' on the fuse may be something like 'AGC' which is a style of fuse. What you really want to know the the '5A' or '15A', which stands for 5 amps or 15 amps or however many amps the fuse is rated for.

If you have 2 fues only with power try the folowing 2 things: If the horn works, and if the brake lights work, then those 2 fuses are likely for those circuits (plus several others that hang off of the same fuse as the brake lights). Power into these 2 fuses are not switched by the ignition circuit; they are hot all the time.

There are 3 fuses together on the other half of the fuse block that should have power when the key is in the ON position. (Check both sides of each fuse BTW). If you are not getting this to happen, then likely you ignition switch itself is bad or the connections up in the column or the power is not getting to the ignition switch. You should have power to the RED wire to the ignition siwtch all the time. Is that the case?
Click to expand...

Ill check in the tomorrow in the morning and get back to you guys about the fuses the only thing I can recall of the top of my head without checking is that the few i've looked at all start with "A" but like I said ill look for the numbers on them tomorrow.
But neither of the wires going up to the ignition switch have power going to them. I tested both of them not long ago.
 
74 box I believe is same as 74. However here is a 74, scanned from my printed manual. Unfortunately I don't have one in electronic I'm not sure if this is the back or front view, I believe the front You will have to match it up. Look at the center. See where it says "BATTERY" and then to the right says ACC?

Those are long brass strips which you can see if you look at the rear of the panel. The "BATT" one is fed right off the ammeter and is hot all the time

The ACC strip is fed off the key and is hot in "run" or "accy"

The fuse to top right is a trick. This is for the dash lights only, notice the Tan and Orange wires. Power for dash lights comes off the "tail" fuse and goes TO the light switch, and the switch feeds TO and THROUGH the dash dimmer control when the switch is in park or head. AFTER power goes through the dash dimmer control, THEN it goes to this fuse on the Tan wire, through this fuse, and feeds OUT through the orange wiring

Top left, no6 should be hot only with key in run. I don't believe it is hot in accessory

Bottom left, no9 should be vacant unless you have 'whatever option." You'll have to enlighten us
 

Attachments

  • FuseDiagr.jpg
    34.1 KB · Views: 253
  • Fuses1cs.jpg
    18.1 KB · Views: 236
  • Fuses2cs.jpg
    16 KB · Views: 246
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top