diymirage
HP@idle > hondaHP@redline
that seems to be about par
i got the order in for the headers, told the shop as soon as they come in they can put them on
i think all i need to do now is order a set of remflex gaskets and ill be all set
2017 ram 2500 broken manifold bolts
- Thread starter diymirage
- Start date
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i got the order in for the headers, told the shop as soon as they come in they can put them on
i think all i need to do now is order a set of remflex gaskets and ill be all set
Wow that's crazy low power 5.7.
I have a 2000 Ford E150 with the Triton 5.4 (330 cu.in.) and that vehicle towes like heck, all kinds of weight and different trailers. Pulling through the mountains I just touch the button that locks it out of overdrive and then pull the steeper hills. When things level off its back in overdrive again.
Get like 18 mpg out on the cross country open road traveling by itself loaded with 500 lbs of my goods.
Only thing I have done is Plugs and Coils here last Summer. Running like a million bucks yet.
Have hauled all kinds of mopars and mopar parts from all over the country. Really like that Triton, more power than larger displacement engines.
The 5.7 guys main low power issues could be as simple as over gearing with too large of tire wheel combinations. Or too high of rear axle gearing as there are 2 choices, one for towing and one for cruising.
☆☆☆☆☆
diymirage
HP@idle > hondaHP@redline
Hopefully the shop has one, I'm not breaking my head over these
(See what I did there?)
DumpsterFire
Well-Known Member
Cats? What cats. Never saw noneI`d be more concerned about getting the broken bolts out first.
I`d leave it stock, too much hassle to reconfigure exhaust system with cats and all.
You`ll probably break a few on the other side too.
If you want headers, you do you.
mopar head
Well-Known Member
Dale Davies
Well-Known Member
I let the dog loose to chase the cats when I see them in my yard.
Sweet. Can u give us a break down of the cost of parts and labour? Thanks. Kim
So what happens here? Do the manifold bolts "JUST" break? For no apparent reason? Seriously? When there are vehicles running around 60 plus years old with the original bolts everywhere? That's just stupid.
diymirage
HP@idle > hondaHP@redline
Sure, so there isn't much out there for the 2500, American Racing Headers is pretty much the only game on town
Full length headers, with high flow cats, a decent Y pipe (the stocker is a terrible chokepoint) new hardware and shipping ran $2050
A set of remflex gaskets ran $45.00
The shop had my truck for 2 days, removed the broken bolts from the heads and installed the headers, welded up a block of plate for a cross over pipe not used on my truck and rewired the O2 sensors to fit the new exhaust
The receipt shows they charged $450 per side, plus tax, but the total number was crossed out and someone had written $750.00 instead
So, $2845.00 out the door
What I'm hearing is that someone at mopar (or Daimler or whoever was in charge at the time) decided to make the stock manifolds to thin and a few heat cycles in, they warp
I'm sure the bolts are a thin as possible (because 1/3 penny saved per truck, half a million trucks per year, is $165,000.00 saved)
So, the manifolds warp and put more pressure on the bolts then they can handle and they snap
From what I hear, it is a pretty common issue on rams with the hemi
Dale Davies
Well-Known Member
Yes Rusty, that is stupid. OEMs in their quest to save weight and money pretty much all went to 8mm exhaust manifold bolts. The General has a problem with the LS and 3.6 V6 breaking the exhaust manifold bolts. Drill and tap for 3/8" UNC or 10mm would likely cure the problem.
Weight per vehicle is minor, but an ounce or 2 here and another ounce or 2 there adds up. IMHO the big issue for OEMs is material. Just the volume difference in steel between 8mm and the old faithful 3/8" and it will not take many engines and the bolt material for an engine is free. Consider how many V8 engines the big 2 1/2 manufacture every year and that becomes a big $ saving. As customers it is a huge piss off as we end up out of pocket for the repair. Even when we can do it ourselves it is the $for new bolts and time. If I have to remove bolts to replace the gasket or get to the broken bolt, they all get replaced.
My 2000 Dakota with 3.9 has a couple of broken bolts and the dealer said the bolts would be $150CDN. I figure I play the BS card on that!
I think that dealer is full of crap. They are probably thinking that u want them to do it so they Jack the price up so u say no thanks. Kim
We need an ongoing set of gallows for pencil pushers.
Swinger 340
Well-Known Member
I call it a factory defect. Weather it is the thin manifolds, small bolts or the cheap metal being used in them, it all falls on the pencil pushers. Pay it now or a lot more later. When customers pay 60-90,000 for a vehicle, you would think you are getting the best available. The CEO's needs to rethink their priorities. I bought a $7,000 patio set and the seat bolts, broke on a couple and I removed them all and replaced them with better bolts, before any more broke. I will not buy from that manufacture again. Just over a few cheap bolts. I don't get it, for you pencil pushers. Years ago I bought a cooking set with a 60 year guarantee and two years later a handle came off of one. Took me 6 months to get a replacement because they said it was fought it broke. The reason it broke is because the bolt in the handle was a cheap, l non-stainless steel one and in two years it rusted and snapped. I had to prove my findings to them. All products made today have a week spot somewhere, so they can sell again. Cars included. Wait till the EV cars batteries need replacing!!!!!
Dale Davies
Well-Known Member
Worked there for a bit and got along well with the parts people. That said, you may be correct.
The service manager is a total dick, and I am not the only one to say that. I know Ram owners who drive an hour to get their trucks serviced or repaired, just to not deal with him.
I went to a wrecker and pulled some bolts from an engine.
19DART66
Well-Known Member
Guys you have to put everything into perspective, there are three different alloys here with three different expansion rates, an aluminum head, cast iron exhaust manifold, and a steel bolt. Something has to give, most times it is the steel bolt that is the weak link( which is believe it or not the cheapest part to replace) then the manifold, then the head.
This is a problem with the Hemi, LS engines, Duromax and the Ford modular engines, and Powerstroke, basically engines with aluminum heads and cast iron manifolds. The Ford trucks I would say would be the ones you will use the most foul language on, at least in the ones I have worked on.
With the Dodge Ram trucks, if your truck has less than 100,000 miles an 7 years old or less it should be covered under the factory emission warrenty. My 09 Ram Hemi was covered, my 16 Ram was a diesel no problems, and my 22 Ram Hemi only has 8000 miles on it. My 12 Challenger Hemi I put long tube headers on it in 2014 no problems yet.
All small blocks Mopar came with 5/16 bolts which are smaller than 8mm bolts by 2 1/2 thousands. The reason they didn't snap under expansion was cast iron head and manifold, similar expansion rates.
This is a problem with the Hemi, LS engines, Duromax and the Ford modular engines, and Powerstroke, basically engines with aluminum heads and cast iron manifolds. The Ford trucks I would say would be the ones you will use the most foul language on, at least in the ones I have worked on.
With the Dodge Ram trucks, if your truck has less than 100,000 miles an 7 years old or less it should be covered under the factory emission warrenty. My 09 Ram Hemi was covered, my 16 Ram was a diesel no problems, and my 22 Ram Hemi only has 8000 miles on it. My 12 Challenger Hemi I put long tube headers on it in 2014 no problems yet.
All small blocks Mopar came with 5/16 bolts which are smaller than 8mm bolts by 2 1/2 thousands. The reason they didn't snap under expansion was cast iron head and manifold, similar expansion rates.
Swinger 340
Well-Known Member
If it is true what you say 19DART66, then maybe a little less Torque on the bolts could be the answer and allow the manifold gasket to take on the different expansion differences. I think it is just "CHEAP" or the wrong steal being used in their fabrication.
19DART66
Well-Known Member
As much as a lot of us think engineers are a bunch of half wits for the way they engineer these cars, most of them do know their perspective jobs. The engineer for that bolt most likely spec a lower grade bolt just for that reason.
I have changed my perspective on engineers after my son graduated top in his class for mechanical engineering.
Oh lord I've been tainted.
I have changed my perspective on engineers after my son graduated top in his class for mechanical engineering.
Oh lord I've been tainted.
We never had problems like this in the old days. Kim
Dale Davies
Well-Known Member
You have to be careful reducing bolt torque. Bolt torque is a method to determine and set bolt stretch in a blind hole. This stretch keeps the bolt from loosening and coming out. It works like lock washers do.
You are correct 19DART66 in that there are 3 different expansion rates to consider. The Al is the one with the most different and highest expansion rate, but the bolt is "buried" in the Al. These bolts break either at the head to shank or just flush with the head.
The old iron heads on very rare occasion broke a bolt. I am not familiar with the manifold bolts used on the iron head Mopar engines, but Ford and Chev used 3/8". The worst problem on old engines seemed to be manifolds cracking, especially the inline six engines. That long manifold wanted to expand and contract a lot.
When Detroit Diesel came out with the Series 60, they had a 3 piece manifold. The outer end pieces slipped into the center section, 2 cylinders per piece. After a number of miles the expansion and contraction cased the joint areas to gaul up and leak. We tried antiseize compound on the joint parts but that just delayed failure by a week or two. Management did not know what to do to solve it. I proposed getting a ring groove cut into the outer end pieces and hooked piston ring type seals installed. This was done for two engines on new manifolds. Kept them from leaking but the ends expanding and contracting caused the ring seal to wear into the center manifold part. You could not get them apart later, they were locked together.
On a highway truck the exhaust is fairly cool on level ground and then gets cherry red going up hills. Going down the other side and back on level ground the exhaust cools substantially, so they expand and contract multiple times a day.
A different iron chemistry to limit expansion of the manifolds may have fixed the problem.
You are correct 19DART66 in that there are 3 different expansion rates to consider. The Al is the one with the most different and highest expansion rate, but the bolt is "buried" in the Al. These bolts break either at the head to shank or just flush with the head.
The old iron heads on very rare occasion broke a bolt. I am not familiar with the manifold bolts used on the iron head Mopar engines, but Ford and Chev used 3/8". The worst problem on old engines seemed to be manifolds cracking, especially the inline six engines. That long manifold wanted to expand and contract a lot.
When Detroit Diesel came out with the Series 60, they had a 3 piece manifold. The outer end pieces slipped into the center section, 2 cylinders per piece. After a number of miles the expansion and contraction cased the joint areas to gaul up and leak. We tried antiseize compound on the joint parts but that just delayed failure by a week or two. Management did not know what to do to solve it. I proposed getting a ring groove cut into the outer end pieces and hooked piston ring type seals installed. This was done for two engines on new manifolds. Kept them from leaking but the ends expanding and contracting caused the ring seal to wear into the center manifold part. You could not get them apart later, they were locked together.
On a highway truck the exhaust is fairly cool on level ground and then gets cherry red going up hills. Going down the other side and back on level ground the exhaust cools substantially, so they expand and contract multiple times a day.
A different iron chemistry to limit expansion of the manifolds may have fixed the problem.
Such a simple, yet true statement.
Swinger 340
Well-Known Member
Why does the aftermarket header bolts not break, but the stock one do today. I still say the steel in the bolts used today are inferior. When I commented on lowing the Torque, I didn't mean loose, just take a little pressor off the bolt and allow the gasket to take up some of the expansion. Just like piston rings, they need to expand a little or they break.
diymirage
HP@idle > hondaHP@redline
It's a 2017 with 103k on it
On January 20 it had almost 97k on it, I think it had the leak at that point allready, but that was a month before I started this thread
So I think i would have been in the window you speak of, but when I called the dealer they said there was no warranty left
Dale Davies
Well-Known Member
Like every proffesion, some are more competant than others, but are far from half wits. The problem these days is the bean counters are looking to keep every cent they can, so excellent designs get sent back to shave some happy cabbage off. I do not think the engineers are happy about it, but find a corner or two that can be cut. The bean counters keep the money saving pressure on until failures crop up and warranty claims go up. Ford is finding this with their Ecoboost engines. Pretty much all the DOD or AFM engines are having cam and lifter problems. For the miniscule saving in pickups and full size SUVs, the idea should have been stillborn!
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