273 Engine _ Need ID of Intake

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65_Dart_GT

65_Dart_GT

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The short story is I am swapping out the original 273 - 2 bbl for a purple cammed 273 which I also bought the intake and 4 bbl carb to finish the job from the same person.

Here is my dilemma;

How can I complete the match up of a AFB Carter L8 4294s carb to a cast iron intake as in the pics I hope are attached.

I have already tried an adapter that is meant for a spread bore which does match up onto the intake but the carb still does not match.View attachment 2011-10-16 15.14.45.jpg
 
Whats the casting number of that intake? If it's an early intake, you'll need a carb with the narrow bolt pattern.

Original 273-4 bbl intakes looked like this....
 

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In teresting puzzle. I'm wondering will I see the same problem with my AFB on a Edelbrock performer intake. Being a aftermarket piece it might have both bolt patterns. I haven't looked. Following this thread. Good luck
 
Looks like a 340 intake, large ports. If you want, you can just add holes in the carb mounting pads. It should already have 2 that fit. 4294s is a "67" 4 speed carb.
 
You should be able to buy a "straight through" adapter for that manifold. They have the narrow and wide mounting holes. Assuming your carb is "narrow" and the intake is "wide", you would remove the intake studs

You would install 4 bolts (hex cap screws) with threads sticking UP into the adapter.

Install the adapter onto the manifold with a gasket, and the SUPPLIED SCREW HEAD bolts which fit into recesses in the one set of holes on the adapter.

Then put a second gasket on top and install the carb. These adapters have "hex" sockets on the bottom of the bolt holes to capture the bolts sticking up, and on the top side, a slight recess in the TOP of the bolt hole so that you can install a short head screw in there and end up flush with the top of the adapter

I don't know who made this adapter, but you can see the recess in the top holes:

a0cD.jpg


Below is the wrong adapter, but shows the hardware. This particular adapter is threaded for the studs. On other types of adatpers, you put the special "low nuts" on the studs, and insert them from the bottom of the adapter. The nuts are captured in the hex molded into the bottom of the holes, and the slot head screws hold the plate down on the manifold

Obviously, this is not needed on modern Carter/ Edelbrock carbs with the two sets of bolt holes

2697.jpg
 
I wouldn't try to drill that intake for love nor money. lol ..and yeah it's a 340 intake. 340 carb would probably run good on it. You wouldn't need a plate either.
 
Well as usual I have gotten some great (including pics) information on my question regarding the Intake. I went and got the casting number of the intake which I installed (wish I checked before), and the number 2531915 seems to match as a 340 intake. :eek:ops: Of course I know nothing of what I am doing so that's why all the thank you's. I also got the casting number off the built engine I just finished putting in (it has the 340 intake on it now), and the number 2806030 - 273 - 2 seems to suggest that I have a year 66 block 273. Now if it's true what I hear, that the intake I have on there now is from the 70's I run the risk of water passages being blocked and I could end up cooking the engine, :violent1: Don't want to do that for sure so now I'm on the hunt for a 273/4bbl intake from 1965/66 hoping that will resolve any cooking issues.

I don't know any of this for sure just getting advise.

Now getting to the pics of the adapters you sent (thanks!) I suspect the first pic might be the adapter I have now ordered (today), as the second image was the adaptor that I bought last week that did not seem right. I will keep your instructions near in the event that the second adapter is the ticket and assuming I leave the 340 intake on (once I am convinced I won't cook the engine). Again many thanks for taking the time to include pics and instructions. They made things real clear to a welder come gearhead 1st time ...... :newb:

67Dart273 said:
You should be able to buy a "straight through" adapter for that manifold. They have the narrow and wide mounting holes. Assuming your carb is "narrow" and the intake is "wide", you would remove the intake studs

You would install 4 bolts (hex cap screws) with threads sticking UP into the adapter.

Install the adapter onto the manifold with a gasket, and the SUPPLIED SCREW HEAD bolts which fit into recesses in the one set of holes on the adapter.

Then put a second gasket on top and install the carb. These adapters have "hex" sockets on the bottom of the bolt holes to capture the bolts sticking up, and on the top side, a slight recess in the TOP of the bolt hole so that you can install a short head screw in there and end up flush with the top of the adapter

I don't know who made this adapter, but you can see the recess in the top holes:

a0cD.jpg


Below is the wrong adapter, but shows the hardware. This particular adapter is threaded for the studs. On other types of adatpers, you put the special "low nuts" on the studs, and insert them from the bottom of the adapter. The nuts are captured in the hex molded into the bottom of the holes, and the slot head screws hold the plate down on the manifold

Obviously, this is not needed on modern Carter/ Edelbrock carbs with the two sets of bolt holes

2697.jpg
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for clarifying that the carb is a year 67. Of course I did not know that yet.:prayer:

66fs said:
Looks like a 340 intake, large ports. If you want, you can just add holes in the carb mounting pads. It should already have 2 that fit. 4294s is a "67" 4 speed carb.
Click to expand...
 
I don't think there's any danger of you cooking the engine with the 340 intake, as the water ports on that intake should line up with your heads correctly. The only thing you might encounter is vacuum leaks, being that the 340 intake has much larger ports than the heads you're using.

I believe that the 4294 carb only has the NARROW, square bore bolt pattern carb flange. You can drill the carb base for the WIDER pattern that will fit your 340 intake, then you won't need any adapters...or, get a newer carb with the both patterns already there (Edelbrock Performer or Carter Competition AFB )
 

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65Val said:
...

I believe that the 4294 carb only has the NARROW, square bore bolt pattern carb flange. You can drill the carb base for the WIDER pattern that will fit your 340 intake, then you won't need any adapters...or, get a newer carb with the WIDE pattern already there (Edelbrock Performer or Carter Competition AFB )
Click to expand...

This is what I was trying to say above. Although I hesitate to suggest it also. First because I hate to see the original carbs modified. The second problem with the 4294 on the 340 intake, is using the factory choke. The 340 choke won't work with the 4294 and the 4294 choke is in a different place on the 340 manifold. If you do get a 273 4 barrel manifold you need a 66 or 67, since the 64 and 65 have smaller intake bolts at a different angle.
 
66fs said:
First because I hate to see the original carbs modified. If you do get a 273 4 barrel manifold you need a 66 or 67, since the 64 and 65 have smaller intake bolts at a different angle.
Click to expand...

I agree 110% w/"66fs". The choices are ...

1. Get a stock 273 intake and use your 4294 carb
2. Get an aftermarket Eddy/Carter AFB w/wide pattern and use the 340 intake
3. Get the adapter and use the 4294 on the 340 intake.

If you're concerned about looking factory stock, then choice #1 is the answer. (If it matters, my choice would be #1)
 
I have both manifolds and the 4294s carb and choke. I'll mock them up, maybe they will interchange... I'll try to get to it tonight and take pictures.
 
Are vacuum leaks a big issue? What would the experience be like so I might understand when it happens? Thank you so much for easing my mind about the danger of cooking the engine. I am also looking for a 273/4bbl (must fit the 66 engine) and it looks like I may have a line on one close to home if he can find it.....

Thanks again .... this forum rocks! Especially for a green rookie like me.

65Val said:
I don't think there's any danger of you cooking the engine with the 340 intake, as the water ports on that intake should line up with your heads correctly. The only thing you might encounter is vacuum leaks, being that the 340 intake has much larger ports than the heads you're using.

I believe that the 4294 carb only has the NARROW, square bore bolt pattern carb flange. You can drill the carb base for the WIDER pattern that will fit your 340 intake, then you won't need any adapters...or, get a newer carb with the both patterns already there (Edelbrock Performer or Carter Competition AFB )
Click to expand...
 
Keep the info coming ... I'm learning a ton and I now know how to deal with the carb and manifold. I had to take the manifold back off today, discovered I could pass a hacksaw blade by the gasket goo I put on the front and the back. Apparently I need to make the caterpillar bigger for a seal.
 
When using the thicker Felpro intake gaskets the bead of RTV needs to be larger also.
I got the block clean enough to mark where the sealant belongs with a sharpie.
My bead was about 3/8 wide and about 1/4 inch tall, applied from the end of the tube, no nozzle. The small amount the pushed outward was rubbed inward with a finger.
I hadn't used these thick gaskets before so I did a lot of research. Glad I did. Got it right the first time. Note ; I used 2 pieces of 3/8 allthread as guides. One 8 inches at right rearward and one 6 inches at right forward. didn't read that anywhere, just think of it. distributor must be removed to use the guides.
I let it sit for 12 hours before starting. Ran 15 minutes, let it cool then retorqued the intake to 45 ft lbs. Needed a distributer wrench to retourque the left rear bolt.
Hope this helps
 
Now that I have that all laid to rest (I hope), I am now wondering at what position the distributor should be before I attempt to start the engine. The info I got with the purple cam from the fellow who put it in is as follows; 490-lift.. 276 duration ... 112 degree center line .... 52 degree overlap .... 0.020 Hot. Not sure what all this means but could this have a bearing on turning motor manually to Top Dead Center?

The distributor has been out a couple of times (got in the way during cleanup of gasket surfaces for the intake - twice). Is there a way to place the Dist. in a fairly close orientation before I try starting the engine? I hear that I don't want to mess to much with setting the distributor. What would the timing be?

Once again I appreciate any info/guidance provided. This forum has been a life saver for me for sure.
 
You bet. First, see if you can get the intermediate shaft correct. IT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE. Refer to your shop manual, or download one:

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=132309&highlight=click+save

Basically, with engine timing marks at TDC, no1 ready to fire (both no1 valves closed) you want the dist. gear slot pointing to the front most intake manifold bolt on the driver side of the engine.

IF IT IS NOT, and you wish to change it, try using a large screwdriver. Sort of "pull up" on the driver while twisting it. This should "walk" the helical gear up out of the block and disengage the gears, then you can move it a tooth one way or 'tother

IF YOU CAN NOT change the gear, leave it be. You can time the engine just fine, it's just that the no1 wire won't line up to the factory specified cap tower.

SO to drop in the dist, there are two ways to get the engine where you want.

If either of the valve covers are off, wrench the engine around so the marks are "just coming up" but DO NOT set them at TDC. Set them INSTEAD where you want your timing to be. If you have a stocker cam, set it around 10-12 BTC (before top dead) on the marks. If you have a big lumpy cam, give it some more, maybe 12-15. Some engines like 20.

NOW with the marks at your timing point as above, look at the no1 or no6 valves. If both no1 valves are closed, no1 is ready to fire. If both no6 valves are closed, no6 is ready to fire. You can time off either cylinder.

Alternately, if the valve covers are on, remove the no1 plug and stick your finger in. Bump the engine with a remote starter switch until you JUST START to feel compression on your finger. You may need to practice this a couple of times. JUST WHEN you start to feel compression, pay attention to the timing marks which will be "COMING UP." Once again, set the marks as they come up WHERE YOU WANT the timing, IE 12-15* BTC.

If you go PAST the timing marks, you can wrench the engine backwards "quite a ways" and simply slowly wrench the engine so the marks are up again.

Now drop the dist in, with the rotor pointing towards the no1 tower. I always take the dist and cap, and scribe the top rim of the dist. housing directly under the no1 tower so I can easily see this.

NOW with the dist in, the rotor pointing to the no1 tower, RETARD the dist (cw for small block) and slowly bring it back advanced (ccw for small block)

If you have points, advance until the points just open. Do this with a test lamp and the key "in run" advance until the lamp just lights.

IF you have breakerless, advance slowly until the reluctor tip is centered in the pickup coil

THIS METHOD is close enough that the car should immediately fire just like it was parked overnight.
 
65Val said:
Whats the casting number of that intake? If it's an early intake, you'll need a carb with the narrow bolt pattern.

Original 273-4 bbl intakes looked like this....
Click to expand...

From what I understand nobody likes these because of there poor performance.
 
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