tandart66
Active Member
Could that be avoided by getting a later v8 904?
273 or 225?
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JDMopar
Well-Known Member
Yes, and your car should already have a slip yoke 904 in it since it's a 66. If you use a newer than 65 904 and bolt any small block V8 in the car attached to the 904, your existing driveshaft should work right back. Later, if you upgrade the rearend to an 8 1/4 or 8 3/4, you will still be able to use the same driveshaft...but will have to get it shortened a little. Ball and Trunnion driveshafts stopped in 65. Any 66 A body had a slip yoke transmission, be it auto or straight drive.
Charrlie_S
Well-Known Member
It depends on the year of the V-8 and the year of the trans. The 904 converter pilot got larger in 1968. So, a 68 or newer 904 will not fit the crank of a 1967 or older V-8 (same for the slant six)
tandart66
Active Member
Would a 727 mount to the 273? I have one at my disposal, I realize that the driveshaft would have to be shortened.
Charrlie_S
Well-Known Member
I don't remember the last year of the 273. The only 727 that might work would be a small block 727, and if the 273 was 1968 or newer (crank pilot/converter issue).
tandart66
Active Member
I see so kinda the same issue, another solution I can think of (although might sound stupid), is to cut and swap the ends of the driveshafts so that way the 66’ shaft could accommodate the Ball and Trunnion tranny. Would that be possible?
junkyardhero
Well-Known Member
you want to move away from B&T if at all possible.
but anything is possible. it's just whether you want to spend the money to do something that is one off and expensive.
personally, with your skill set and relative "newness" to all of this, i'd try and steer toward easier and cheaper alternatives that are known entities. otherwise you wind up with a mish-mosh of adapters and one off parts and getting the right parts to all work together right is a giant pain and more money.
It is pretty simple.....
If you want more power, cubic inches is the way to go....
Going from 225 to 273 is a 21% increase in cubes. You are really going to feel that.....
The cost is another thing....
If you want more power, cubic inches is the way to go....
Going from 225 to 273 is a 21% increase in cubes. You are really going to feel that.....
The cost is another thing....
junkyardhero
Well-Known Member
this asks the question: can you get 21% more from the /6 in an easy and economical manner and maintain reliability? and, are you okay with "only" 21% more, or do you see yourself wanting more than that?
by design, that 21% might be the ceiling in terms of economics vs that being the floor of the 273
(yes, i fully understand that you can build a super gnarly fire-breathing slant but that costs a whole bunch of money)
Charrlie_S
Well-Known Member
I would stick with a 904 in an Early A. The 727 usually needs to "clearanced" with a grinder or hammer to fit an Early A, not worth the extra tightness and goobering up your Early A. But you will need a 66 or 67 V8 904 or use what you have if you buy the 65. You should be able to find a driveshaft used to fit. If you do the swap, get it running as soon as you can. Much easier to keep engaged when your car runs.
Paul King
MrPJK
My 273
All 727's have large converter hubs, so it's a no on '66 & earlier 273's & '67 & earlier Slantys, not to mention the 727 is longer & takes a larger slip-yoke, so that's out.
Living in the salt belt as I do, the engine bay shot posted looks great compared to the junk out here, inner fenders/fenders full of holes all the time...You West Coast Guys are F'n spoiled.
For $1,000, I'd grab it, rear end may have better gear ratio...You could use or sell them.
The trans is biggest issue, but I know CharrlieS had/has converters for the larger/later input shaft made with the smaller early crank hub, so any later SB trans is easy-peasy..I don't know if they will still make them, but maybe Charlie has one He'd part with.
Honestly, as much as I love the Slanty, I'd grab that because the V-8 mounts, pedal/cable assy., centerlink, etc., all hard to come by, V-8 Wagon may have 10" brakes as well,...yeah, they're better than 9" binders so I'd swap them too, and disc conversions are available for 10" knuckles, not 9" AFAIK.
Also, don't worry about the "intake issue", yes it's unique with the vertical intake bolts...but it will run well w/a 2bbl, a little cam, a good timing curve, and a free flowing exhaust so...don't be skeert...& if You decide to do more than cruise, You can drop any later/larger SB in there & go back to a normal large hub converter in the stall of Your choice. Whatever You do, have fun & enjoy Your ride, peace!!!
Mopar44134
Well-Known Member
I’m late to the party but get the 273 set up. This way if the bug gets you for a v8…you have the parts sitting there.
The best way for you to determine what engine you really desire is to find a good Mopar guy that has said car and have him take you for a ride or let you drive it! Be it whatever. Then you know! I have had just about every A, B and E (and F body) body and combo there is from 62 up to 79, from slants to 426 hemis and all in between (170,225 273 318 340 360, 383, 426 wedge 426 MX, 426 hemi and 440) auto 4 speeds 3 speeds 4 speed OD. Most stock. a couple not so much. BUT I have never been a drag racer other than the rural 2 lane blacktop time trial decades ago. I could not see the cost of it all. Point is every engine has it good and not so good points as to power, little things that an be problems as far as breakage, or power or durability.
I measure my enjoyment in this hobby is by smiles per mile and smiles per $$$> What can I love and afford!??? If I can't love it, then why have it!???? IF I was wealthy it would only be by smiles..period!!!! But I am not!! I have loved both slants and and big block cars and both give a different feel and type of enjoyment, just hard to explain. I find joy in the art (beauty) and design of most all old cars. BUT.... I see NO art in many models these days although I look and try to see it!
I never knew what torque felt like till I was 14 and had a ride in a 62 or was it 63 409 4 speed Impala. Wow.! I had never been over maybe 60 till my parents bought a new 55 Pontiac and I was riding with mom driving it back from the dealer and she "opened it up'. I looked over at the speedometer and it was begged. I asked how fast were we going. She said about 60 ( I called bullchit in my mind!) and she let off. I was 7.
I measure my enjoyment in this hobby is by smiles per mile and smiles per $$$> What can I love and afford!??? If I can't love it, then why have it!???? IF I was wealthy it would only be by smiles..period!!!! But I am not!! I have loved both slants and and big block cars and both give a different feel and type of enjoyment, just hard to explain. I find joy in the art (beauty) and design of most all old cars. BUT.... I see NO art in many models these days although I look and try to see it!
I never knew what torque felt like till I was 14 and had a ride in a 62 or was it 63 409 4 speed Impala. Wow.! I had never been over maybe 60 till my parents bought a new 55 Pontiac and I was riding with mom driving it back from the dealer and she "opened it up'. I looked over at the speedometer and it was begged. I asked how fast were we going. She said about 60 ( I called bullchit in my mind!) and she let off. I was 7.
MILO
Well-Known Member
The best bet is go 273 and also have a whole nother car for parts sure is what I would do. I have had slant sixes and 273 318 360 and liked the 273 now they are getting a little harder to find
Dart66
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Really depends on what you want to do. If you want the car to be more of a muscle car type, the V8 is nice. If you want a great driver, its hard to beat the slant. I have both in 66 Darts. I like them both. My slant has been built enough to create some nice HP, but not radical. The 273 is stock. To be honest, when I go to cruise nights or shows, the slant gets more attention and comments.
Just depends if you want to cruise or shred tires!!!
Enjoy your car either way!!
Just depends if you want to cruise or shred tires!!!
Enjoy your car either way!!
BillGrissom
Well-Known Member
Buying a whole car for the engine sounds excessive, but perhaps you could part it out and sell parts. I did that to fix our crashed 1985 M-B. A small-block will bolt to your K-frame. You need a V-8 steering link which drops down ~1" more to clear the oil pan. Some 1966 slants came with one. The drop is subtle, so stare closely at web images to see if yours is. I have a 1965 273 and 1964 225 so know both and have some parts. Indeed, too many parts after being too accumulative so slowly cleaning up, so PM if interested. In Sacramento and go to SF ~4 times per year, or you might pass thru going to Tahoe.
I have a 1965 273 engine I'll never use. It was a HiPo but pistons were seized and messed most up beating them out. The block# is same for Commando, HiPo, and regular 273, with only the pistons changing, so block has no extra value. The seller kept the special HiPo valve covers (fins). Would have to bore & hone the block for new pistons. I recall you can buy new HiPo pistons (Egge?). You will need a matching transmission w/ slip-yoke output. Transmissions vary between slant, small-block, and big-block. The engine and transmission must also match in years since ~1968 the torque converter snout got bigger (many posts). A 904 is best and sufficient. A 727 requires beating the pinch-weld on the tunnel flat to fit, and would give less mileage. I have a V-8 steering link I'll probably never use since plan to keep the slant in my 1964.
My thought for a slant upgrade is to wait for better motorized compressors. Much simpler install than a turbocharger or belt-driven supercharger. There are some already, though sketchy Chinese. The >$500 ones actually increase power (youtubes). I suspect they will improve with changes to maybe 48 VDC (w/ inverter), better batteries, and such. Boost overcomes the restricted flow in a slant head, as evidenced by this 9.09 sec quarter mile run. Slants draw a bigger crowd at car shows than the multiple small-block Chevy's w/ same Edelbrock bling.
If I swapped to a V-8, I would consider a 5.2L Magnum for MPFI. Parts interchange like heads and can bolt to a later 904 transmission. An early-A 273 oil pan bolts up, or you can dent the Magnum pan to clear the steering linkage (lateral extreme). Better is the Magnum auto transmission (overdrive, lockup), but must cut and reform the tranny tunnel to fit. The 5.9L is a 360 so requires those changes. Since 5.2L moved heavy pickups, it is ample for a light early-A. A whole forum on Magnum swaps. I would keep the single exhaust since even the HiPo's were single, albeit w/ special exhaust (can buy repo's). If you go dual exhaust, you must rework the transmission cross-over. One exhaust manufacturer offered that mod if you buy their duals. Coolest would be popping the hood to see a 3.8L V-6 or 2.4L DOHC (both RWD in Jeeps).
I have a 1965 273 engine I'll never use. It was a HiPo but pistons were seized and messed most up beating them out. The block# is same for Commando, HiPo, and regular 273, with only the pistons changing, so block has no extra value. The seller kept the special HiPo valve covers (fins). Would have to bore & hone the block for new pistons. I recall you can buy new HiPo pistons (Egge?). You will need a matching transmission w/ slip-yoke output. Transmissions vary between slant, small-block, and big-block. The engine and transmission must also match in years since ~1968 the torque converter snout got bigger (many posts). A 904 is best and sufficient. A 727 requires beating the pinch-weld on the tunnel flat to fit, and would give less mileage. I have a V-8 steering link I'll probably never use since plan to keep the slant in my 1964.
My thought for a slant upgrade is to wait for better motorized compressors. Much simpler install than a turbocharger or belt-driven supercharger. There are some already, though sketchy Chinese. The >$500 ones actually increase power (youtubes). I suspect they will improve with changes to maybe 48 VDC (w/ inverter), better batteries, and such. Boost overcomes the restricted flow in a slant head, as evidenced by this 9.09 sec quarter mile run. Slants draw a bigger crowd at car shows than the multiple small-block Chevy's w/ same Edelbrock bling.
If I swapped to a V-8, I would consider a 5.2L Magnum for MPFI. Parts interchange like heads and can bolt to a later 904 transmission. An early-A 273 oil pan bolts up, or you can dent the Magnum pan to clear the steering linkage (lateral extreme). Better is the Magnum auto transmission (overdrive, lockup), but must cut and reform the tranny tunnel to fit. The 5.9L is a 360 so requires those changes. Since 5.2L moved heavy pickups, it is ample for a light early-A. A whole forum on Magnum swaps. I would keep the single exhaust since even the HiPo's were single, albeit w/ special exhaust (can buy repo's). If you go dual exhaust, you must rework the transmission cross-over. One exhaust manufacturer offered that mod if you buy their duals. Coolest would be popping the hood to see a 3.8L V-6 or 2.4L DOHC (both RWD in Jeeps).
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My last 273 car was a 65 Barracuda fastback car I traded a buddy out of. Original 273 roller car, engine half apart, it had a 8 3/4 rear and came with a console auto (I hate the darn cable stuff!). All there but we had to rob a back glass out of one of his parts cars.Another PO had sanded it to bare metal and let it sit outside 6-8months but that is another story! I built it all back with the original engine/trans and did body and interior etc. and sold it in 2017 when we moved to Tx. I love the little 273 in a light car. Cool little engine. They dress up nice! 10:1 compression beats 8:1. Solid lifters. motor Are they as fast out of the box as a 340? No. But... the 340 did not come in the 66 Dart any more than a LS came in a 66 Dart!!!! But I degress.
I would get that parts car as cheap as possible. I am a sucker for a good parts car.
I would NOT use the darn cable shift. Just me. I have had too many. I would use the 65-6 floor shift. I would also understand the most driveshaft shops will notwork on that trunnion deal! My last conversion DS a couple years ago in m 64 Savoy cost me $500 and 2 trips to the shop. It all adds up.
Remember, unless an engine at least runs, it is a core. After the core goes to the machine shop, washed and checked, then you know what you have. If bad and you paid the price for a core and it has enough usuable and/or salable parts, it all works out in the end for the hobbiest that intends to stay in the hobby with more projects. If you aren't gonna be that guy find a good running enough motor THAT you can hear run and check out.
What was the question???
I would get that parts car as cheap as possible. I am a sucker for a good parts car.
I would NOT use the darn cable shift. Just me. I have had too many. I would use the 65-6 floor shift. I would also understand the most driveshaft shops will notwork on that trunnion deal! My last conversion DS a couple years ago in m 64 Savoy cost me $500 and 2 trips to the shop. It all adds up.
Remember, unless an engine at least runs, it is a core. After the core goes to the machine shop, washed and checked, then you know what you have. If bad and you paid the price for a core and it has enough usuable and/or salable parts, it all works out in the end for the hobbiest that intends to stay in the hobby with more projects. If you aren't gonna be that guy find a good running enough motor THAT you can hear run and check out.
What was the question???
As much as I love slant sixes, you're already talking about a V8, so it would be dumb to try to talk you out of that. People build slant sixes because of the love of them and to be different. They'll never be a V8 and lots of people end up disappionted by that, because they jump into the slant 6 not realizing the cylinder head is a huge cork that stops it from making power similar to a V8. But those that know that don't care and build slant sixes for the love of them. I can honestly say I will never put a V8 in my car now. I am just drawn to the slant 6 somehow.
Having said all that, my advice to the OP would be to find a later 5.2 Magnum and build a mild Magnum. You'll find a core in better condition and have better heads, more compression and 45 more cubic inches. So unless you already have a 273, that's the direction that I would go.
Having said all that, my advice to the OP would be to find a later 5.2 Magnum and build a mild Magnum. You'll find a core in better condition and have better heads, more compression and 45 more cubic inches. So unless you already have a 273, that's the direction that I would go.
One great thing about FABO is the fact there is SO much good info to be had by doing a search. Take the Magnum engines for instance. You can find all the info a guy would ever need about them, all the little details, the good and the bad, the whys and wherefores!!
Slant guys are like the poly 318 guys. The poly guy loves that engine, he knows them inside and out he knows how much power he can make with it and what all that entails and COSTS time he is done! If everyone had the same tastes the world would be boring (or he might just be a Chevy guy!
)
Slant guys are like the poly 318 guys. The poly guy loves that engine, he knows them inside and out he knows how much power he can make with it and what all that entails and COSTS time he is done! If everyone had the same tastes the world would be boring (or he might just be a Chevy guy!
) tandart66
Active Member
Thanks for all your suggestions! I think im starting to lean in the slant 6 direction, as I dont think an engine swap is within my ability as a mechanic just yet. Im sure I will have more opportunities in the future to fulfill my v8 crave.
J-c-c
Well-Known Member
This is my take. I have a 62 Dart Polara 500 that the previous owner removed an OEM 361/727 and replaced it with a warmed over 273/4sp. I believe that swap lowered its desirability on the market. I bought the car sight unseen. My intentions were to fairly quick drop in a 440+. I was surprised how peppy the car was when it arrived. I changed directions and made it a cruiser with a few upgrades, and bought another 62 to hot rod.
Would I suggest anyone take the same route?
No.
A 273 has nearly the same size and weight as any 318, 340 or 360, and hard to tell the differences visually
The early 273 reputation as being a high revving small motor no longer holds with the above new bigger bore motors.
It has little desirability, and the OEM heads require special somewhat rare aftermarket intakes.
My opinion, any LA bigger motor makes a lot more sense in every way.
If you are not racing, any good running 318 can be had for merely hundreds of bucks, is nearly a drop in, and you can always toss in it a 4" stroker in the next rebuild if you need more power, but then a 8.75 will be in your future.
Personally, non racing, I'd go stroker 360 and never look back.
A slant without mega bucks upgrades will seldom ever keep up with any of the above V8's warmed over.
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