273 or 225?

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J-c-c said:
:thumbsup:

This is my take. I have a 62 Dart Polara 500 that the previous owner removed an OEM 361/727 and replaced it with a warmed over 273/4sp. I believe that swap lowered its desirability on the market. I bought the car sight unseen. My intentions were to fairly quick drop in a 440+. I was surprised how peppy the car was when it arrived. I changed directions and made it a cruiser with a few upgrades, and bought another 62 to hot rod.
Would I suggest anyone take the same route?
No.
A 273 has nearly the same size and weight as any 318, 340 or 360, and hard to tell the differences visually
The early 273 reputation as being a high revving small motor no longer holds with the above new bigger bore motors.
It has little desirability, and the OEM heads require special somewhat rare aftermarket intakes.
My opinion, any LA bigger motor makes a lot more sense in every way.
If you are not racing, any good running 318 can be had for merely hundreds of bucks, is nearly a drop in, and you can always toss in it a 4" stroker in the next rebuild if you need more power, but then a 8.75 will be in your future.
Personally, non racing, I'd go stroker 360 and never look back.:D
A slant without mega bucks upgrades will seldom ever keep up with any of the above V8's warmed over.
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I really like the 64 Dodge B bodies. If I could find one with a 273 (or even a Poly 318) it would be perfect. I would dress the 273 up like a Hypo engine and never look back. (to use your phrase) I would wave at all the guys filling up their 440 cars every hour of driving. Meanwhile mine get's near 20 mpg.
 
tandart66 said:
Thanks for all your suggestions! I think im starting to lean in the slant 6 direction, as I dont think an engine swap is within my ability as a mechanic just yet. Im sure I will have more opportunities in the future to fulfill my v8 crave.
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That's what I would do also.
I like the 225 A cars. A real pleasure for cruising around. My favorite of the many I've owned was a 68 4dr, auto ac, ps, pb Dart. That was a great do everything car. It certainly earned my respect.
If I had a clean 2dr 225 A car and wanted a v8, it would have to run like the 69 GTS I had in 78. It would be done from a 91-93 Dakota v8 auto 3.91 posi rear doner. All of it. Which I happen to have but wouldn't use because it's in very good condition and everyone in the family likes driving it.
I wouldn't go the 273 route.
 
junkyardhero said:
this asks the question: can you get 21% more from the /6 in an easy and economical manner and maintain reliability? and, are you okay with "only" 21% more, or do you see yourself wanting more than that?

by design, that 21% might be the ceiling in terms of economics vs that being the floor of the 273
(yes, i fully understand that you can build a super gnarly fire-breathing slant but that costs a whole bunch of money)
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To me it mainly comes down to the heads, non ported I doubt you could make 200 hp with the /6, where the 273 heads could easily make 300+ hp which would take a fairly wild build to get that out of a /6, I doubt a /6 could make more than 350 hp Max effort NA on gas with every last hp rung out of it.
 
tandart66 said:
Thanks for all your suggestions! I think im starting to lean in the slant 6 direction, as I dont think an engine swap is within my ability as a mechanic just yet. Im sure I will have more opportunities in the future to fulfill my v8 crave.
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In your 1st post you said you plan rebuilding the /6, or you mean just going over it while in the car?
 
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tandart66 said:
Yea, the motor seized up, I have yet to pull it out of the car and take a look as to what happened.
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It's up to you but if your pulling and rebuilding an engine swap is not that big of a deal compared.
 
First rodeo, long drawn-out can of worm's V/8 swap. I can see the case for a 225 refresh.
Why the lock up?
Maybe it's just a crank job? Timing chain wrapped? Cam seized? Was it burning oil past the rings? Ever overheated? How many miles on the 225?
 
tandart66 said:
Thanks for all your suggestions! I think im starting to lean in the slant 6 direction, as I dont think an engine swap is within my ability as a mechanic just yet. Im sure I will have more opportunities in the future to fulfill my v8 crave.
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I've had over 400 cars since I was 13 years old. Most all were V8s except a few Jeeps and Military trucks. I have to say with 100% certainty that this slant 6 Valiant I have now is BY FAR the most fun car I've ever had. It never fails to put a smile on my face. It'll never be a V8, but it's very peppy and snappy in the little light 64 Valiant. It's just a perfect combination.

In case you didn't know, the Valiant began its own separate make. It was its own platform for the 1960 year model. It wasn't a Plymouth. It wasn't a Dodge. It wasn't a Chrysler. It was VALIANT. Then in 61 it became part of the Plymouth lineup. Chrysler needed an engine to meet the requirements of lowered hoods and shorter front ends and R&D began on the "new" slant 6 in the late 50s for the 60 model year.

They moved the water pump off to the side of the engine, instead of right in front to shorten the engine and tilted it at a 30 degree angle over to the passenger's side. Both of these features allowed that engine to fit in smaller and lighter bodies and with lower hood lines than the competition. That meant they were a lot lighter than the competition.

In 1960 NASCAR created a "compact car class" and Valiants kicked their butts coming in the first seven places with the Hyper Pack 170 slant 6. Read about it.

Valiants kick BUTT

Some people say "oh but look what they were up against, wussie Falcons and Corvairs". Ford and Chevy could have done similar to their cars, but they didn't. Their cars were heavier and had less power, so the Valiants stomped um. They dominated so badly, NASCAR dropped the compact car series after that race.

That's just one of the many reasons the slant 6 has such a strong following. Their uncanny durability is another. They will run pretty much no matter what. There've been stories about people who threw a rod through the side of the block and still made it home. It's hard to discount that kinda stuff. lol

So if you really decide to keep the slant 6, I'm warnin you ahead of time, you just might get hooked like a bass. lol
 
To all of you that are fixated on the engine. It's not about the engine. IF a V8 swap was to be made, getting a donor car makes the most sense, especially an early A. You swap the whole drive train, you have a radiator, exhaust manifolds, HD suspension, gas pedal, accelerator cable bracket, steering link motor mounts. That particular car looked like I could get it running in an afternoon. That being said, for Tandart66 nothing wrong with a 225, and less to change. Replace the freeze plugs with brass ones, new gaskets and seals while the engine is out, maybe put a double roller timing set in also. If you want to soup it up that is another thread. Best of luck.
 
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Probably a NA 2.0l has more power potential than a /6, at best you'll probably have the power of a modern peppy NA 4 cylinder. If that is ok build away. Do the six cause you want and odd ball peppy concept (dare to be different kind of thing even though more /6 A bodies were built) not cause you want power unless power adders are in your future.

/6 guy's are like 360/408 guy's they all think you should run what they do. Run what you want as long you know the compromise.
 
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MidnightSwinger said:
Just like you 273 guys.
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Idc what the OP runs as long he's gonna be happy with his decision.
I'd probably pick neither and go with a running 5.2/5.9 Magnum with 4bbl and mild cam.

A performance /6 is a labour of love not a wise economic power to $$$$ and is severely handicap in the NA power department to say otherwise is a lie, saying that I love seeing built sixes and would love to have one, one day.
 
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273 said:
Probably a NA 2.0l has more power potential than a /6, at best you'll probably have the power of a modern peppy NA 4 cylinder. If that is ok build away. Do the six cause you want and odd ball peppy concept (dare to be different kind of thing even though more /6 A bodies were built) not cause you want power unless power adders are in your future.

/6 guy's are like 360/408 guy's they all think you should run what they do. Run what you want as long you know the compromise.
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Maybe you should read my posts again.
 
It used to be easier to find a guy with a GOOD running slant that the owner wants it out of his garage, would sell it cheap or even give it away! They are out there. BUT don't get such and spend un needed $ on it! That is the reason to find good slant and NOT build one! IF you love the whole slant thing, then find a good core and later build it how you want. If you want to go V8, at least you have nothing in a good running slant you can sell or give way!

Like I said earlier join a local Mopar club and get rides with different powertrains and see what you actually will want!
 
273 said:
/6 guy's are like 360/408 guy's they all think you should run what they do. Run what you want as long you know the compromise.
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Not all of us. I recommended staying with the slant six, mainly based on the fact that he is still a teenager, with a limited budget, and very limited experience working on cars. He can gain experience, working with the slant, get the car running, and have some fun with it. Then if he wants more, do the V-8 swap in the future.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Maybe you should read my posts again.
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Wasn't directed at you, you've given a balanced opinion.

I find people give the advice what they would do from their perspective, not what they would do if they had the wants, skill, money, desire, situation of the OP. Why a lot of Eg. 360/408 guy's dismiss any other choices cause it's about them not the OP's wants/needs/wishes etc... Also see that with Drag racers and some /6 guy's they love it and think everyone else should.
 
Charrlie_S said:
Not all of us. I recommended staying with the slant six, mainly based on the fact that he is still a teenager, with a limited budget, and very limited experience working on cars. He can gain experience, working with the slant, get the car running, and have some fun with it. Then if he wants more, do the V-8 swap in the future.
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I'd agree if he didn't have to pull the six anyways, so I don't see the swap should hinder his decision since either engine he has to do one. If he feels staying with six fills his needs and don't see a v8 swap in his future then I'd say go for it.
 
tandart66 said:
Hey all,

Im trying to rebuild my ‘66 Dart and have came to yet another dilemma. My recent intentions were to rebuild the stock slant in the car, and try to hot rod it out a little bit, but now a new opportunity has risen. I found a ‘65 with a 273 that I could use as a parts car to make the swap to a v8. Is it worth the extra time and money to v8 swap the Dart or should I continue with the slant build? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
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For myself, I would go with the 6. Nothing like the sound of dual exhaust 6. Use an X pipe to take the rasp out. You won't make the HP with 6 holes that a V8 can provide. For syreet driving torque is what you need and the 6 will provide that and get good fuel economy doing it. On the street you can suprise a lot of V8s with a well built leaning tower of power. On top of that you have something different in the row at the Cars and Coffee meetup. Too many cars had Chevy small blocks stuffed in them. Now it is LS engines. Zipper engines making transvestites.
 
273 said:
Wasn't directed at you, you've given a balanced opinion.

I find people give the advice what they would do from their perspective, not what they would do if they had the wants, skill, money, desire, situation of the OP. Why a lot of Eg. 360/408 guy's dismiss any other choices cause it's about them not the OP's wants/needs/wishes etc... Also see that with Drag racers and some /6 guy's they love it and think everyone else should.
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Thank you for the clarification. Happy New Year!
 
Every time I would stop for gas in one of my slant Dusters, the guy gasing up on that other pump always had a story about his dads or grandpas or Uncle Neds SLANT six!!!!!! If I was doing such in a V8 Duster, I never heard chit!! :poke: :thumbsup: :rofl::poke::poke::poke:
 
junkyardhero said:
if you *really* want a V8, then at least that's a convenient way to get all the V8 specific parts for the swap.

but unless it's a commando spec or already hopped up 273 it's not gonna be all that much better than a warmed up slant, and any hot rodding to the early 273 is going to cost more than usual due to the unique heads/intake.

personally i'd spend money toward upgrades-- suspension, brakes, steering, electronic ignition, alternator/wiring updates than a wheezy V8
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And the weirdly sized pistons
 
I’m getting ready to drop in a fresh 273 in my Valiant. Has a 74 318 in it right now. Given the present economy, the availability of parts and the lack of good machine shops that are still in business, if I had to do it all over again I’d go with a crate motor.
 
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