318 2bbl manifold swap with OE cam - worth it?

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We just put an Edelbrock 1406 600cfm, vac 2nd. on our stock 318 and totally popped our driver side engine mount, it was only 6 months old! You should see the tit in the center of the hood now! It was a big difference on cold and warm start up, better throttle responce, better low end to midrange, same on top end. However now we can adjust how we want. Also wanted to point out Edelbrock recommends a 500 cfm for 350 ci or under stock to light mods. We chose the 600 due to easy access for our area. I think we may be a little over carbed. The DVD that comes with the new carb is a really great teaching tool. I learned alot from it and alot more interesting that reading a book with diagrams!
 
I put an LD4B and a Holley 670 CFM Street Avenger on my '71 318. It made a HUGE difference in the car. I never took it to the track before or after, but it sure made driving the car a lot more fun.

Mine has been converted to electronic ignition though. Accurate timing is worth a lot of power.

I would leak it down before you do anything. Even low mileage, these motors are OLD. It'll give you an idea of how much of your performance is from Chrysler and how much is from age.

Leak down on mine wasn't great. A couple of cylinders were very high, but the carb and intake still made a big improvement in the car.
 
ramenth said:
I'm hearing a lot about intakes, exhaust, carbs, cams, etc. Man, I was waiting to hear the obvious. Wake up a 318? 360 heads. Reason why Mopar used the 360 upper end on all those 318 cop motors back in the day. The more air in, the more air out, the more horse being made... Takes half a day to bolt 'em on with the engine in the car...fire it off, instant gratification.
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There arent a lot of fans of this swap on here. Its not really the best way to go. It may have been back in 78, Not now.

The larger combustion chambers and bigger ports will hurt torque and throttle response. A better choice would be some reworked 318 heads or a set of stock Magnum heads.
 
Thread has got off track.... It was never about warming up a 318. It was about an intake and carb swap ONLY on a stock 318 with stock cam.

Recap...

........You would get something but nothing big.

........Spending the cash on a 318 when your planning to build another engine is a waste.

........Drive the car as is and use the carb/intake money for the real build.
 
There is nothing wrong with starting your upgrades with the underpinnings. It really motivated me to continue on with the rest of the car. Just one thought, plan on the performance you want carefully, or it becomes (more of) a money pit. My .02
 
We ran our bone stock 74 Dart years ago. It had over 100,000 on it. Stock 2bbl 318 with single exhaust. It ran an 18.3. Highway gears, one tire fire etc.

We wanted to get my wife some seat time while we built her a 360 so we purchased an Holly 600Dp, a Weiand Xcellerator (there are better choices for this application) and a set of headers and dual exhaust. It ran a 16.2 and the one tire fire was really obvious. It went mid 15's with a suregrip and 4.10's. We were careful to only purchase parts that we could bolt onto the new engine so we didn't throw our money away. Ran that thing all summer and had a blast. Probably put almost 100 passes on it before the 360 was ready and we just bolted our intake and carb onto the new engine.:cheers:
 
Here's my opinion. If it matters, since I have done this LOTS and LOTS and LOTS.

A stock 318 IS woken up nice with a cam and manifold change.
If you change the cam, usually, from my experience, in a higher mileage motor, there is a "gum line" on the valve stems, when you run higher lift, it pushes the "gum line" into the seal, wearing the seal, giving you an oil burning idle smoker. (and no 318 will turn 6K with the stock valve springs, been there, spun them, and nope, never, not to mention the heads are only good for 5K anyway)
OK, maybe it will turn 6K, but will sound like a flooding out sprint car.....

The best stockish small port 318 manifolds are, the dual port, SP2P, or the street dominator. The dual planes get worse MPG than the small port single planes, and have less midrange. (And thats what you are trying to get with a stockish 318)

Wieand action plus manifolds run real lean on the middle cylinder.

Headers don't do much, 360 manifolds actually give it more low-mid tho.

Mild cams need to be degree'd, ANY cam needs to be degree'd. Why give away HP's?

And I wouldn't run a holley on anything that isn't going in a straight line for a living. (Had a O2 sniffer in too many rigs) Metering rod carbs rule the street.

BUt if it was me, and I was going to build the motor eventually, I would get the manifold I want to run once I build it, throw it on, put a 600cfm EB on it, and enjoy. Don't even bother tuning it, unless your good with them, or know someone who is.


IMO
 
Thanks for the input gang. As of right now, a cam is not an option. That was my original point to see if a manifold and carb would be worthwhile doing without changing the cam. Obviously a new cam would be the answer, as well as a gear set and headers etc. Funny how a carb and manifold turns into an entirely new drivetrain.

I've heard two reasonable assessments from Lxguy and 340 Dart who both clearly said this type of thing made a noticeable difference. 340 Dart actually had the numbers to back it up, looks like the car picked up over a second with just these type of changes. (read no cam change)

A bunch of you have said that gears will make a difference and that's pretty obvious. As stated before, I have the diff that will go in the car eventually I just need to get the rest of the stuff to finish the whole rear. This is a project in itself, prolly won't happen before the summer is over.

I will however, soon be ditching the power steering (though the A/C will stay for now until the 'real' engine goes in). I will be installing a floor shifter too and a tach, all stuff I have. These were things I was planning to do anyway though I doubt these things in themselves will help ET much. I know I picked up 2 tenths shifting manually on my second run and that was letting off trying not to break out (broke out anyway). Losing one drive belt will definitely free up some HP too, but not a lot. A better (open) air cleaner might help a little too. Every little bit counts.

I'm really just looking for a higher fun quotient and to do some old school tinkering. I don't think I have unrealistic expectations for this stuff, it's just for fun and show when I pop the hood. I think the cost would be minimal (I say that now) and would give me a chance to drive and tune. It will be fun trying to squeeze as much as possible out of the car with basic parts, I need the experience. It would be like those slow bracket racers who go to the finals every meet against much quicker cars, they know their stuff and cut perfect lights. Not sure how often I will get to the track but I'm hoping for a slightly more satisfying experience when I do.

Plus, I'm a gear head, I can't leave things alone!
 
Johnny Dart said:
I wanna tell you I built a hot little 318 with a stock original motor,in my 70 Dart.It had about 70,000 miles on it.

All I did was add a Edelbrock performer with a Edelbrock 600,wich in my opinion is the perfect intake carb set-up for the 318. Also with a Edelbrock carb,all factory linkages/fuel lines bolt right up.

Electronic ignition.

Dual exhaust,Flowmaster 40's, H-pipe.
The kicker was the Hi-Po 340 manifolds !!

Never got a 1/4 mile time, but I tell you this car was no joke with this set-up.
I could roast the tires with this car. Was really fun to drive.

So yes you can wake up a stock 318 with the right bolt ons.
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Dont think I can get any closer to your question than this write up.
It is exactly the answer to what you asked.

I never said anything about changing a cam. Changed to a 4bbl intake/carb on a "STOCK" 318 and had some tire roasting fun !!!

The only difference from yours and mine is the 340 manifolds and electronic ign. Both upgrades can be used if you go bigger. The 318 manifolds will be the biggest restriction. Electronic ign upgrade is easy.

Ive seen Performer intakes and Edelbrock 600's go for around $100.00 each.

In closing: Yes its worth it !!!!!!
Like you said it's wrenching !!! It's fun !!!! Its experience !!!!

Get out there and do it !!!! 8)
 
If it were me, I'd do a good dual exh system off the manifolds and upgrade the ignition first. Then see how it responds to that. IMO, there's no reason to really add intake and carb when the rest of the system is not even performance oriented. I did it on my first car... stock iron intake, holley 3310 750VS on an adaptor, and single exhaust witha sonic turbo muffler. It was a turd. I loved it, and I learned a ton from it. But it was a turd. Knowing what I know now, I'd kep the stock intake tract and work on the exh side and ignition first. I'd bet you get more power with less monkeying, and the next $250 can go into a used 318 performer intake and 600 carb. At least then it's ready. The cam will wait. the rear can be done any tiem with great benefit too. the valve springs become your own rev limiter...lol.
 
With all due respect,if you would read the original post you would learn that he already has dual exhaust with a H-pipe and Flowmasters.8)
 
Johnny Dart said:
Dont think I can get any closer to your question than this write up.
It is exactly the answer to what you asked.
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Sorry I didn't include your reply in my last post Johnny, no disrespect!

And yeah, I have a great sounding dual exhaust all the way back. The 340 manifolds would be great but for a similar cost I could probably get a set of cheap-o headers that would do the job.

A few years ago I installed an electronic ignition in my Slant 6 Valiant, it was around $145 complete with distributor and module. It made a huge difference in drivability. Not sure if it made more hp but it certainly made the engine feel more responsive. I guess what it does is allow what you have to work up to it's full potential. The car used to cough and wheeze going up long hills but after the ignition went in it pulled all the way up and hardly lost any rpm. It was a lot easier to start too.

I also like 340 Dart's idea of re-curving the distributor because it involves bolting a minimum of low cost parts on. In effect you're trying to get the most out of the stuff you have. I think that's the kind of process that helps you to learn your car and how to tune it.

I'm on a mission now!
 
I beleive the early magnum manifolds are thebest flowing, right?

Will they work on a A body?

Anyone>?

You can recurve the dist and put all the headers you want on it, but it wont do any good unless you give it more air.
 
Man, trying to get the whole linkage deal sorted out for this swap is making my head spin a little. Turns out the cost is not so 'minimal'. I know I know, never is. Always double your estimate and you will be in the ballpark. But I digress...

Looks like you need to get a 'correct' throttle bracket. I see AR Engr. makes an adjustable one which gets sold through the usual outlets. Link here. The nice thing about is that it's got a provision to use the Lokar cable kickdown. That solves two issues.

My question is this - do I need a new throttle cable as well. i.e. a longer one?

If all this happens, I'll likely be using a universal Holley 600 #80457 since they don't make the Mopar specific 80454 anymore. Also, do I need to get the Mopar throttle lever thing for this carb, part #20-7?

Thanks.
 
Yes, you will need a V8 throttle cable and the mopar linkage adapter to do it the correct way.
 
Anyone use the kickdown kit from Bouchillon? Link here. I've read on some other boards of guys having trouble with the Lokar set up, like they couldn't get the shift points adjusted correctly or the throttle lever on the trans needed to be modified in some way for the cable to operate properly. They claim it will fit any and all manifold/carb combinations.

I'm guessing the Bouchillon kit is more Mopar-specific and takes care of these issues from the get go? Not sure. Mancini sells this kit too.

IMO looks kinda chintzy though for $130...
 
rmchrgr said:
Anyone use the kickdown kit from Bouchillon? Link here. I've read on some other boards of guys having trouble with the Lokar set up, like they couldn't get the shift points adjusted correctly or the throttle lever on the trans needed to be modified in some way for the cable to operate properly. They claim it will fit any and all manifold/carb combinations.

I'm guessing the Bouchillon kit is more Mopar-specific and takes care of these issues from the get go? Not sure. Mancini sells this kit too.

IMO looks kinda chintzy though for $130...
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I used their accelerator cable bracket and liked it enough I bought another. http://www.bouchillonperformance.com/BPEaccBracket.asp

I can't remember what I used for a kickdown before I went to a manual valve body.
 
"Your killing me Larry" !!!!!

Why not do it the way MaMopar intended it ?

Chryslers actually used Carters which = Edelbrock. So much easier as far as linkage and fuel line. Way easier to tune,much more street friendly. Didnt about 5 people suggest a 600 edel ? :scratch:

Your 318 throttle cable will work fine.

You will need a 4 bbl accel cable bracket. No biggie,either someone here has one,or E-bay. Say $30.00 max.

1/2 your kickdown will allready work ( accel cable bracket to trans),just need the 4 bbl rod from the accel cable bracket to the carb. No biggie maybe $10.00.

And yes the edelbrock chrysler carb adapter......Big $10.00.

Here is a pic of what I am suggesting.

faucet pics 831.jpg


faucet pics 834.jpg
 
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