Here's a link to Hot Rod magazines "Junkyard Jewel" build. 400 Horse 318.
http://www.hotrod.com/howto/113_0304_318_small_block_build/index.html
http://www.hotrod.com/howto/113_0304_318_small_block_build/index.html
318 for 12.80 bracket car
- Thread starter jwsewell
- Start date
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Hot Rod magazine's "Junkyard Jewel" 318 made 406 horse and 408 ft pounds.
Not bad at a cost of $1,466.83.
Link
www.hotrod.com/howto/113_0304_318_small_block_build/dyno.html
Not bad at a cost of $1,466.83.
Link
www.hotrod.com/howto/113_0304_318_small_block_build/dyno.html
I ran 12.80s in my first Dart with a 318. It was .030 over, Competition Cams solid lifter cam with just over .500 lift, '72 small valve 340 heads, Victor intake, Holley 750 DP, Mallory ignition, 8" T/A converter, and 4:88 gears. Ran 11.80s with a 100 shot of nitrous. Ran great until the day I forgot to turn on my electric waterpump at the track
Got the motor too hot, spun a rod bearing and blew a rod cap through the oil pan
Got the motor too hot, spun a rod bearing and blew a rod cap through the oil pan
stroked 340
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Ya,but how long did it stay together??...not long they put a 125 shot on it and "boom".....waste of money!!! well maybe not it was only a 318...
Awww, he just linked each page individually...
318's can be really strong motors, as the article showed. The first couple of iterations on their motor (starting at 375 hp and 380 tq) would be really streetable, and you could skip some of the tuning time by not even messing with the tq carb and orginal low rise intake. You could run that motor all day long and still be close to 400 hp. Plus, the 318 weighs a 100 lbs less than any of the BB's, stock.
Awww, he just linked each page individually...
318's can be really strong motors, as the article showed. The first couple of iterations on their motor (starting at 375 hp and 380 tq) would be really streetable, and you could skip some of the tuning time by not even messing with the tq carb and orginal low rise intake. You could run that motor all day long and still be close to 400 hp. Plus, the 318 weighs a 100 lbs less than any of the BB's, stock.
Maybe they blew it up later with the 125 shot, but it made 400 hp without the nitro, and would have run a long time like that too. Obviously the 318's aren't going to make 500 reliable horses, but 400 is fairly easy to do, and in a light car (3,200 lbs and lower) 400 hp is pretty decent. With the right set up it shouldn't be hard to run mid to high 12's with that.
one bad fish
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318 are cool but it is easier just start with a 360 make more power like i said my duster has a 360 stock pistons 12.39 @105 162 60foot
Petzschler
→Welcome backâ†
haha nice azzhat. thats the prob with the some in the MoPar world.. to many haters.:thebirdm:
now when GM finally does buyout Chrysler.. I'll still Love yah. :-D
anyways..
300,400 hp 318s can be done. NOT easily tho, for those who think it is, keep dreaming.
but i suppose with enuff $$$ 318 could be king. super/turbocharging is ur best bet.
cheers
PS
I guy I know is finishing up his Scamp with a 351 ford in it. I promise it will kick 99.8% of
318 Butts out there lol.
have a great day.
stroked 340
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That might be true of the 318s..but my duster with either my 360 or stroker will show that ford powered crossbred my tail lights no problem!!!..i might put down 318's but i'll defend mopars against brand-x any day...
I wouldn't be so sure. Did you even bother to read the article? The basically made a 400 hp 318 for about $1500. Doesn't seem like a lot to me, and they were still using mopar heads. 30 cubes isn't that big of a difference. Besides, now your buddy has a cross-breed, which means custom parts. Mopar or brand-X, cross-breeds of any make aren't the way to go.Ford's should be ford's, chevy's should be chevy's and mope's should stay mope's. For the time/money he spent putting the 351 in the Scamp he probably could have built a 318 that would be faster. You can't pretend that 351's don't have their own share of problems.
Petzschler
→Welcome backâ†
read it? up. do i believe it? up. are they tellin yah everything? hell no. otherwise EVERYBODY
would have 400hp, $1500 318s. I also realize every engine has there design flaws (except mabey
for Ferrari lol). mopar engine/mopar body is fine and dandy for most, but not for others.
IMO the best money spent would be to SC the 318.
cheers
The key to a killer 318 like any build are the heads.Like uncle ted stated here is an excellent write up on a 477hp iron magnum headed 318. http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0901phr_mopar_318_magnum_engine/index.html
Oldschoolcuda
Oldschoolcuda
I have $2000 in my 318 and it runs just find. It can be done but you don't seem to understand.
LXguy
Well-Known Member
I found that article inspirational also, but something seems really fishy to me.
They claim the motor has 200,000 miles total, with 100K on a redneck rebuild.
Well, look at this photo.
http://www.hotrod.com/howto/113_0304_318_small_block_build/photo_01.html
That's a pretty snazzy looking block for 200,000 miles. Notice the new frost plug and timing cover (who reuses a timing chain, but buys a new timing chain cover?)
Why do the heads look so much grungier than the rest of the motor?
Check this out too:
http://www.hotrod.com/howto/113_0304_318_small_block_build/photo_08.html
Sheesh. If the story is to be believed, they did this to the block with the rotating assembly still inside!
These magazines like to take a lot of license, and if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
LXguy
Well-Known Member
Here's another thing:
http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/mopp_0409_318_engine_build/dyno_testing.html
In this article, they hit 400 hp with a 318 also, but they have a fresh bottom end with zero deck pistons, a windage tray, TTI headers, Magnum heads, and a single plane intake. The cam is slightly smaller however.
Maybe the guys at Mopar Muscle aren't as good as the guys at Hot Rod?
Or maybe one (or both) of them is BSing.
http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/mopp_0409_318_engine_build/dyno_testing.html
In this article, they hit 400 hp with a 318 also, but they have a fresh bottom end with zero deck pistons, a windage tray, TTI headers, Magnum heads, and a single plane intake. The cam is slightly smaller however.
Maybe the guys at Mopar Muscle aren't as good as the guys at Hot Rod?
Or maybe one (or both) of them is BSing.
So, they painted the block when they pulled it and changed the frost plug because after 200k it was leaking? They bolted the heads on straight from the wrecking yard, and didn't paint those. They did change the cam though, which would require pulling the timing cover. Do I believe they did the machining with the rotating assembly in place? Well, they notched their pistons with a die grinder (and it looks like they did too!#-o), so yeah, I would believe it. No one said they were smart!
Look, I don't really want to defend the article a whole lot. I'm pretty sure that liberty's were taken in the article, and I'm honestly not sure I would want to build an engine in that fashion (if they really did) and run it in my daily driver. But even if you sent the block to a shop and had it honed and changed the rings and pistons to set things up right, you'd probably only be out 500 bucks more. The .060 over bore with pistons and rings for my 340 cost me less than $700.
Even if you believe they cut some corners on their costs (I'm sure they did), you could still replicate this engine for not a lot of money. And if their dyno numbers are correct, the 318 they built still puts out something close to 400hp, with a relatively mild build. Yes, it would probably be easier to do with a 360, but if you've already got a 318 there's no reason why it won't work, especially if you have to rebuild an engine either way.
A 318 probably isn't the perfect choice for a drag racer, I totally buy that. On the other hand, if you've got a matching #'s 318 sitting in your car (I do), there's no reason it can't be made to perform. And if you just want to go out and kick *** with a 318, why not?
Look, I don't really want to defend the article a whole lot. I'm pretty sure that liberty's were taken in the article, and I'm honestly not sure I would want to build an engine in that fashion (if they really did) and run it in my daily driver. But even if you sent the block to a shop and had it honed and changed the rings and pistons to set things up right, you'd probably only be out 500 bucks more. The .060 over bore with pistons and rings for my 340 cost me less than $700.
Even if you believe they cut some corners on their costs (I'm sure they did), you could still replicate this engine for not a lot of money. And if their dyno numbers are correct, the 318 they built still puts out something close to 400hp, with a relatively mild build. Yes, it would probably be easier to do with a 360, but if you've already got a 318 there's no reason why it won't work, especially if you have to rebuild an engine either way.
A 318 probably isn't the perfect choice for a drag racer, I totally buy that. On the other hand, if you've got a matching #'s 318 sitting in your car (I do), there's no reason it can't be made to perform. And if you just want to go out and kick *** with a 318, why not?
The fresh bottom end doesn't really make any hp, and the zero deck pistons just set the compression ratio up with the magnum heads.The hot rod guys set their compression up by milling the heads instead. The TTI headers are nice and expensive, and if you were running this engine in a car would last a lot longer, but on the dyno stand aren't necessary. Maybe buys a little hp, but so does a bigger cam. And the bolted on magnum heads had smaller valves (1.92 vs 2.02) than the 302's in the other article.
Both the 318's had a claimed 10:1 compression ratio. HR had bigger valves and probably had better head flow numbers to go with, ran a bigger cam, crappy headers, and a 650 double pumper. MM ran a smaller cam and heads, better headers, a single plane instead of an air gap (which they said was a good alternative), and a windage tray with a new bottom end, and a 750 double pumper.
The HR build has a head flow and cam advantage, but loses on the carb, headers, and windage. The MM build gives up a little head flow and cam, but runs a larger carb, intake and headers, and takes care of windage. I don't see why both these engines can't make about the same hp, especially given different dyno's, which we all know makes a huge difference. MM definitely spent more money, and would have a better base for a reliable engine, but either way you've got a 318 in the 400 hp ballpark.
LXguy
Well-Known Member
Hey:
I'm not disputing that a 318 could be made to make 400 hp. I just think they're not telling the full story. My guess would have been that the fresh shortblock, Magnum headed 318 would make significantly more power than the junkyard jewel build, which is what makes me think the hot rod article is inflated.
I would disagree that the rebuild wouldn't make any horsepower. The compression boost from zero deck pistons would definitely make power, and a fresh set of decent piston rings will definitely up power (or should do a lot better than a 100,000 mile rebuild.)
I'm totally with you on it maybe being fun to run a 318. I've got a numbers matching 30K mile 318 in my Dart. I actually bought a 5.9 Magnum to drop in there, which is almost done, but more and more I'm intrigued to see what I could squeeze out of the stock shortblock 318 before I jump right to the Magnum.
If I could really make 400hp, I could get the car to run as fast as I want to go with the 318, and that'd be neat from a sleeper factor kind of deal.
Steve
I'm not disputing that a 318 could be made to make 400 hp. I just think they're not telling the full story. My guess would have been that the fresh shortblock, Magnum headed 318 would make significantly more power than the junkyard jewel build, which is what makes me think the hot rod article is inflated.
I would disagree that the rebuild wouldn't make any horsepower. The compression boost from zero deck pistons would definitely make power, and a fresh set of decent piston rings will definitely up power (or should do a lot better than a 100,000 mile rebuild.)
I'm totally with you on it maybe being fun to run a 318. I've got a numbers matching 30K mile 318 in my Dart. I actually bought a 5.9 Magnum to drop in there, which is almost done, but more and more I'm intrigued to see what I could squeeze out of the stock shortblock 318 before I jump right to the Magnum.
If I could really make 400hp, I could get the car to run as fast as I want to go with the 318, and that'd be neat from a sleeper factor kind of deal.
Steve
jwsewell
Active Member
WOW! Lots of N/A 318 combo's out there that would get me what I want.
Thanks for all the input and links guys.
BUT.....
I am still gonna do a blow though turbo.
I already have the low compression long block ready to go. (bone stock turd)
I am trying to get my hands on a set of Dakota Magnum exhaust mainfolds that have the 2 1/2 outlets.
My research suggests that these can be flipped from side to side and will clear manual steering.
This would give me exhaust manifolds that exit at the front of the engine and I would just have to fab a crossover pipe and a merge collector before the turbo flange.
I have found one pic that gives an Idea. This belongs to a memeber of theTurboforums.com by the name of topfueldart.
Thanks for all the input and links guys.
BUT.....
I am still gonna do a blow though turbo.
I already have the low compression long block ready to go. (bone stock turd)
I am trying to get my hands on a set of Dakota Magnum exhaust mainfolds that have the 2 1/2 outlets.
My research suggests that these can be flipped from side to side and will clear manual steering.
This would give me exhaust manifolds that exit at the front of the engine and I would just have to fab a crossover pipe and a merge collector before the turbo flange.
I have found one pic that gives an Idea. This belongs to a memeber of theTurboforums.com by the name of topfueldart.
The big gain, not really seen, is the smaller head and cam combo wich will be a hair more fuel efficent and provide more torque for actual drivabilty. Something you'll feel.
The M-1 single and RPM are very close in performance on medieum (SP!) builds.
A 750's primarys are a good size match to a stock 2bbl. I think a 750 is a bit big for this engine on the street, but it is tunable and doable if the rest is a match.
The head flow IMO, is to the smaller head. The larger valve head shouldn't do as well. It's to much. Not by alot.
I just read that write up and while I have to say this guy used his noodle and created not just only a power little engine, I do have a ***** about what I also consider good thinking and work.
This build used some odd thinking, work, parts that normal builds and guys like me would pull out of a hat for a street car or , really, not for nothin, a race ride. I do not see this as a realilistic build for 99% of the people out there.
Repeatable with regular MoPar parts. Probabale and likely. But how many people out there/here are offset grinding there crank and useing Chevy rods?
IMO, why bother? For a street car or racer. I'd just assume to go with a regular OE set up, use HP parts and common sense.
moper
Well-Known Member
I didn't re-read any articles...lol. but I can tell you a 400hp 318 is not a big deal. And a modern rebuild is a large boost over even a factory fresh 40 yr old build. Better materials, better accuracy, and better theory result in more power, less oil use, and more economy. If your results are not that dramatic, ask yourself why. 1hp per cu inch is very easy nowadays with modern parts and machining.
LXguy
Well-Known Member
HA!
I just found yet another magazine write up on a 318.
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0810phr_chrysler_318_engine/index.html
Basically, .040, KB 167 zero deck pistons, EQ Magnum heads, 231/237 cam, Air Gap, windage tray, made 402 hp.
With a set of ported EQs it made 425
The 318 is getting a lot of press recently.
Steve
I just found yet another magazine write up on a 318.
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0810phr_chrysler_318_engine/index.html
Basically, .040, KB 167 zero deck pistons, EQ Magnum heads, 231/237 cam, Air Gap, windage tray, made 402 hp.
With a set of ported EQs it made 425
The 318 is getting a lot of press recently.
Steve
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