318 swap gone wrong?!

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austinE77

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I Swapped a 318 SB into my 69 valiant 100 that original had a 225 slant six
Everything has been replaced, new plugs, wires, distributor that is HEI, new coil
New ballast resister
New battery, new voltage regulator and module, ive checked my timing, ive checked fuel and even replaced manual fuel pump and new converted to electric fuel delivery with a edelbrock pump, new carburetor- i had it running but it was very rough and i went ti mess with the distributor to see if i could get it to run smoother and now i cant get this thing to run, during all my testing ive now found excessive fuel in the oil pan- outside of that, ive checked all my vacuum lines and everything seems correct- the car wont start up, only hiccups as if it wants to start… but nothing… losing my mind over this build, anyone got any ideas? Im close to giving up here
 
A.) An HEI ignition doesn't use a ballast resistor.
B.) ANY fuel in your oil pan is too much.
Is your float level set correctly?
Do you have a fuel pressure regulator now that you have an electric fuel pump? Unregulated fuel pressure can easily be overcoming your float and loading up the engine with fuel... an Eddy carb only needs about 5 PSI or so.
 
Really? How come the new hei distributor came with a ballast resistor then??Fuel regulator is putting out 5-5.5 psi- i dont think fuel is my issue here
 
Really? How come the new hei distributor came with a ballast resistor then??Fuel regulator is putting out 5-5.5 psi- i dont think fuel is my issue here
Fuel in your oil pan is an issue. Be thankful it isn't starting if your oil is fuel-logged.
 
are you sure that you're not confusing the stock electronic ignition for HEI?

throw some pics up, let's see what's cooking.
 
Really? How come the new hei distributor came with a ballast resistor then??Fuel regulator is putting out 5-5.5 psi- i dont think fuel is my issue here
Then it's not an HEI. Period.
HEI is a GM ignition, for some it's a popular modification to Mopar ignitions-but it's not an all-inclusive term for electronic ignitions in general., and definitely not in reference to factory or Mopar Performance systems.
Exactly what distributor do you have? Pic or link.
And fuel in your oil pan IS an issue. A big one.
 
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I may be getting the two confused- this is the kit i got
 
that's just a standard OEM electronic ignition. good stuff, or it can be if it's made by a decent company.

have you checked for spark? the orange box may have taken a dump or the pick up may not have the right air gap and it's not firing off.

go back to fundamentals, check for voltage, check for spark.

like other's said, you'll need to address the fuel in the oil as well. that's no bueno.
 
First, gas in the oil pan is BAD! If the fuel pump is overpowering the floats, that will certainly keep it from starting.
If you take care of the fuel problem and it still won't start, perhaps the distributor is 180 degrees out.
 
Possibilities with fuel in oil and it MUST be fixed. If not and if there's enough fuel, the crankcase can suffer an explosion, blowing open the pan or rocker covers

Some causes:

1...Trying to start the engine for extended periods, you may have gotten a lot of fuel in the cylinders, washed down the rings and cylinders, leaking fuel down in the crankcase

2...I guess you do NOT have a mechanical fuel pump at all? They can leak fuel right into the pan

3...Problems with the carb, mostly flooding, stuck/ dirt in the needles and seats, or "gas logged" floats or leaking brass floats.

Timing. You can check timing on the starter, just don't grind away more than you need to.

You can turn off the fuel pump to prevent further flooding as a temporary measure, turn it on/ off for short periods to try and get it running

Pull plugs and dry, or change plugs

CHANGE THE OIL if the fuel is as bad as you describe.
 
you said "new carb", what is the new carb? A new carb is not always good. In my latest 318 build I got a new Edelbrock AVSII 650 and had problems getting it to run well. It was good enough to get through break in, thank God, but it ran like **** at lower rpms. I took a known good carb off a different small block and all the problems disappeared. Got Edelbrock to replace the carb and everything has been fine ever since. Do you or a friend with a similar engine have a known carb that works well? If it's off a small block Mopar, it would only take a half hour to find out if the issue is in the carb.
 
Possibilities with fuel in oil and it MUST be fixed. If not and if there's enough fuel, the crankcase can suffer an explosion, blowing open the pan or rocker covers

Some causes:

1...Trying to start the engine for extended periods, you may have gotten a lot of fuel in the cylinders, washed down the rings and cylinders, leaking fuel down in the crankcase

2...I guess you do NOT have a mechanical fuel pump at all? They can leak fuel right into the pan

3...Problems with the carb, mostly flooding, stuck/ dirt in the needles and seats, or "gas logged" floats or leaking brass floats.

Timing. You can check timing on the starter, just don't grind away more than you need to.

You can turn off the fuel pump to prevent further flooding as a temporary measure, turn it on/ off for short periods to try and get it running

Pull plugs and dry, or change plugs

CHANGE THE OIL if the fuel is as bad as you describe.
This i what im thinking, i have cranked it over for days trying to get things right so it made sense as to why it was filled with gas
 
Have you looked down into the carburetor while the fuel pump is running to see if fuel is pouring into the engine?
 
My guess is that the cylinders and rings have been gas-washed and you now have little to no compression.
Here's what I would do.
To prevent a repeat, I would shut that stinking electric fuel pump off. then
Fill the carb with fresh gas to the proper level, and pressure test the float valves. The engine will run for several minutes with what is in the bowls.
When you are satisfied that the Float valves are not leaking;
Install a battery charger.
Disable the ignition, Remove all sources of ignition in the vicinity, then pull the plugs out, then bump the engine over a minimum of two revolutions, to pump the gas out; put down something to protect your paint. If gas comes shooting out, turn it a few more revolutions.
Next; put a few good shots of motor oil in every cylinder, and let it sit for a minimum 15>20 minutes, to allow that oil to wick down into the ring-lands and such. Leave the plugs out
While yur waiting,
change the oil and filter.
Next, verify that your reluctor gap is set, and that the Distributor is shooting sparks when you spin it, (hooked up of course) then install it correctly at #1TDC compression, then advance it to anywhere in the window of 8>18 degrees. Leave the clamp loose enough that you later pull some timing in, if she wants more, but tight enough to not move by itself. Then disconnect it from the ignition circuit. Prove the cap is indexed, then Prove your firing order.
With the cylinders now gas-free and oiled, crank the engine over to distribute the remaining oil and or pump the excess liquids out. Leave the battery charger installed.
At this point, I would do a compression test, cuz if it doesn't start right up, everybody is gonna ask for the numbers. The numbers will be artificially high, cuz of all the oil still in the cylinders, no big deal.
If the numbers come in good, and even, then you can clean and dry the plugs, then put them back in, and reconnect the ignition. Leave the charger installed.
Verify the carb still has the correct amount of fuel in it. IE it didn't run out somewhere.
At this point, With all the cranking, the polluted oil should now pumped out, especially out of the lifters; and the intake manifold should be dried out; and, as the theory goes, she is ready to be started.
Unless you leave it overnight in a heated garage, I can almost guarantee you that, some raw gas is still gonna be hiding here and there, which is gonna cuz the engine some grief on start-up, so;
Go get your fire extinguisher, and keep it handy, somewhere NOT where the fire might start, lol
DO NOT TURN THE FUELPUMP ON .

What we are gonna do, is a test crank, so the engine can tell us what she does or does not need or want; just a few seconds.
So, disconnect the stinking choke, wire it open, and put the throttle up on the second highest step, leave it there until the engine is running, and she finishes her bucking and farting, and starts racing. While you are waiting, check the oil pressure real quick.
Ok
Ready, set, crank it! 5 seconds with a Dakota Mini starter, 10 if you have a Mopar rrrrrr-rrrrr reduction starter.
Did it start? Immediately, Check for external fuel leaks. If you got some, shut it off! and fix them. If no leaks then let it rev for a bit to push the fresh oil thru. It's gonna run out of gas in a minute or two, so just let it run at up to 2000/2500 , so she can clean herself out.
If it wants to stall right away, just grab the distributor and pull it CCW to advance it as high as she likes; up to 30/35 degrees if the timing light is still connected. Don't worry about the exact timing numbers at this point, just keep it running until she runs out of gas.

Ok but, if she doesn't start with a short crank; the question is why? and now we have to think about it.
1) Did it try? that proves the ignition system is working.
2) did it backfire flames thru the carb? that could mean that an intake valve is not closing, or there is just gas in the plenum; let's see the compression test results.
3) Did it afterfire repeatedly out the exhaust? That could mean she's still flooded and the exhaust system has gas in it. We're just gonna have to crank longer.
OR
4) did it just crank with no action whatsoever? This is actually the best as can happen, cuz it's pointing to NO GAS anywhere in the induction tract. This is what I'd like to see. In this case, turn the key OFF, lean over the carb and give it TWO shots of gas all the way to WOT and all the way back to idle, looking for a steady stream of fuel, no air. If the first shot was full of air, give her another; then put it back up on the Second highest Fast-idle step.
5) ok we're ready for a retest, this time maybe up to 10 seconds. What's happening?
Hopefully it fired right up and so, now we go back to #1 above.
If the battery is pumped up, now you can remove the charger.
6) after she is up and running successfully and has run the gas out;
a) fill the bowl again, look for fuel leaks, then kick the throttle off the fast idle step
b) start her up and check that the idle speed is adequate to prevent stalling. With the Vcan defeated, reset the IDLE-timing to around 8 degrees snug the clamp, and idle her up to 700 for now, re-connect the Vcan, then let her run the gas out.
7) Now we gotta figure out what's wrong with the carb.

Ok Hopefully I hit all the bases for ya.
 
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Probably gas washed from not starting. Bring number 1 cylinder up, check that distributor is pointing to number 1 on cap, if it is not then you maybe 180 degrees out, or way out of time. Pull the plugs, and give them a good cleaning, they are probably gas fouled also. Double check your plug wires for the proper firing order and see if she fires after all that has been done.
 
Pinch the fuel line hose off leading to the carb. . Hold the throttle wide open until it starts. This will tell you if its flooding with fuel
 
Sounds like it’s just dumping fuel in so fast and much it has now fouled all the plugs and won’t allow it start and run even just rough. Check your float level and needle and seat for proper operation. Check and/or change the plugs. Confirm your firing order, spark plug wires orientation and cap etc. then try again and report back.
 
How bout this,
1. Change the oil
2. Start over, check basics like compression, spark, fuel
3. Verify TDC and balancer and correct
4. Charge battery

After all of that then try to start it. No reason to continuously crank an engine to death. If it doesn’t start after 3-4 rotations then it ain’t right.

@austinE77 I’m currently writing this from Vegas but I’ll be back in So Cal Saturday night, if you can’t get er figured out by then I’ll come over Sunday and put some fresh eyes on it and we’ll get it running. PM me if you’d like.
 
How bout this,
1. Change the oil
2. Start over, check basics like compression, spark, fuel
3. Verify TDC and balancer and correct
4. Charge battery

After all of that then try to start it. No reason to continuously crank an engine to death. If it doesn’t start after 3-4 rotations then it ain’t right.

@austinE77 I’m currently writing this from Vegas but I’ll be back in So Cal Saturday night, if you can’t get er figured out by then I’ll come over Sunday and put some fresh eyes on it and we’ll get it running. PM me if you’d like.
Great recommendations and offer to help.
 
My guess is that the cylinders and rings have been gas-washed and you now have little to no compression.
Here's what I would do.
To prevent a repeat, I would shut that stinking electric fuel pump off. then
Fill the carb with fresh gas to the proper level, and pressure test the float valves. The engine will run for several minutes with what is in the bowls.
When you are satisfied that the Float valves are not leaking;
Install a battery charger.
Disable the ignition, Remove all sources of ignition in the vicinity, then pull the plugs out, then bump the engine over a minimum of two revolutions, to pump the gas out; put down something to protect your paint. If gas comes shooting out, turn it a few more revolutions.
Next; put a few good shots of motor oil in every cylinder, and let it sit for a minimum 15>20 minutes, to allow that oil to wick down into the ring-lands and such. Leave the plugs out
While yur waiting,
change the oil and filter.
Next, verify that your reluctor gap is set, and that the Distributor is shooting sparks when you spin it, (hooked up of course) then install it correctly at #1TDC compression, then advance it to anywhere in the window of 8>18 degrees. Leave the clamp loose enough that you later pull some timing in, if she wants more, but tight enough to not move by itself. Then disconnect it from the ignition circuit. Prove the cap is indexed, then Prove your firing order.
With the cylinders now gas-free and oiled, crank the engine over to distribute the remaining oil and or pump the excess liquids out. Leave the battery charger installed.
At this point, I would do a compression test, cuz if it doesn't start right up, everybody is gonna ask for the numbers. The numbers will be artificially high, cuz of all the oil still in the cylinders, no big deal.
If the numbers come in good, and even, then you can clean and dry the plugs, then put them back in, and reconnect the ignition. Leave the charger installed.
Verify the carb still has the correct amount of fuel in it. IE it didn't run out somewhere.
At this point, With all the cranking, the polluted oil should now pumped out, especially out of the lifters; and the intake manifold should be dried out; and, as the theory goes, she is ready to be started.
Unless you leave it overnight in a heated garage, I can almost guarantee you that, some raw gas is still gonna be hiding here and there, which is gonna cuz the engine some grief on start-up, so;
Go get your fire extinguisher, and keep it handy, somewhere NOT where the fire might start, lol
DO NOT TURN THE FUELPUMP ON .

What we are gonna do, is a test crank, so the engine can tell us what she does or does not need or want; just a few seconds.
So, disconnect the stinking choke, wire it open, and put the throttle up on the second highest step, leave it there until the engine is running, and she finishes her bucking and farting, and starts racing. While you are waiting, check the oil pressure real quick.
Ok
Ready, set, crank it! 5 seconds with a Dakota Mini starter, 10 if you have a Mopar rrrrrr-rrrrr reduction starter.
Did it start? Immediately, Check for external fuel leaks. If you got some, shut it off! and fix them. If no leaks then let it rev for a bit to push the fresh oil thru. It's gonna run out of gas in a minute or two, so just let it run at up to 2000/2500 , so she can clean herself out.
If it wants to stall right away, just grab the distributor and pull it CCW to advance it as high as she likes; up to 30/35 degrees if the timing light is still connected. Don't worry about the exact timing numbers at this point, just keep it running until she runs out of gas.

Ok but, if she doesn't start with a short crank; the question is why? and now we have to think about it.
1) Did it try? that proves the ignition system is working.
2) did it backfire flames thru the carb? that could mean that an intake valve is not closing, or there is just gas in the plenum; let's see the compression test results.
3) Did it afterfire repeatedly out the exhaust? That could mean she's still flooded and the exhaust system has gas in it. We're just gonna have to crank longer.
OR
4) did it just crank with no action whatsoever? This is actually the best as can happen, cuz it's pointing to NO GAS anywhere in the induction tract. This is what I'd like to see. In this case, turn the key OFF, lean over the carb and give it TWO shots of gas all the way to WOT and all the way back to idle, looking for a steady stream of fuel, no air. If the first shot was full of air, give her another; then put it back up on the Second highest Fast-idle step.
5) ok we're ready for a retest, this time maybe up to 10 seconds. What's happening?
Hopefully it fired right up and so, now we go back to #1 above.
If the battery is pumped up, now you can remove the charger.
6) after she is up and running successfully and has run the gas out;
a) fill the bowl again, look for fuel leaks, then kick the throttle off the fast idle step
b) start her up and check that the idle speed is adequate to prevent stalling. With the Vcan defeated, reset the IDLE-timing to around 8 degrees snug the clamp, and idle her up to 700 for now, re-connect the Vcan, then let her run the gas out.
7) Now we gotta figure out what's wrong with the carb.

Ok Hopefully I hit all the bases for ya.
So I rep replaced ignition, module voltage regulator checked my timing made sure there was fuel getting to the car it sharp like it wants to start but nothing
 
Is the car in a heated space? or is the ambient temp at least 60>70 degrees?
Did you oil up the cylinders?
did you clean the Plugs?
and verify the firing order?
Did you do a compression test with oiled cylinders?
Did you block the choke open, and set the Fast idle up on the Second highest step?
Is the carb still pissing gas into the intake and cylinders?
Did you change the oil?
Is the battery fully charged?
Did you purge the gas-polluted oil out of the lifters by cranking?
Did you set the timing into the window of 8>18*


If you did all those things, but didn't bother to show your compression results, then I guess
1) it's time to check that the distributor rotor turns lock step, while cranking; and if it does,
2) then, just maybe it's time to check the cam timing.
 
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