318 Wolf in Sheep's Clothing

[MopaR&D]

Sorry for the delayed response. Here are a few pics. Hope they give a good visual of what you are asking for.

Yup thanks that works for sure, I'll download those to my laptop.

Getting that quench right will really help it run cool and be able to work on lower-octane gas. I was gonna make a comment about the cam then realized you hadn't posted specs yet lol #-o So what's the target compression, seems like it might end up around 10:1 or a hair less?

FWIW my 360 is mild like your build, in fact calculating my HP from timeslips at the drag strip and compensating for altitude had me right around 330 HP. Like I mentioned I have stock Magnums, also KB flat tops and .039" head gaskets which I computed out to 10.42:1. I'm running the small 256/262* adv. duration Lunati Voodoo cam and it's a torque MONSTER this thing is begging for a bigger cam which I will hopefully give it by summer. Runs great on premium pump btw and I can get 17+ MPG on the highway with a non-lockup 904 trans and 2.94 gears.

Good luck on your build it should turn out to be a really nice versatile street engine :glasses7:

 

[RAMM]

Yup thanks that works for sure, I'll download those to my laptop.

Getting that quench right will really help it run cool and be able to work on lower-octane gas. I was gonna make a comment about the cam then realized you hadn't posted specs yet lol #-o So what's the target compression, seems like it might end up around 10:1 or a hair less?

FWIW my 360 is mild like your build, in fact calculating my HP from timeslips at the drag strip and compensating for altitude had me right around 330 HP. Like I mentioned I have stock Magnums, also KB flat tops and .039" head gaskets which I computed out to 10.42:1. I'm running the small 256/262* adv. duration Lunati Voodoo cam and it's a torque MONSTER this thing is begging for a bigger cam which I will hopefully give it by summer. Runs great on premium pump btw and I can get 17+ MPG on the highway with a non-lockup 904 trans and 2.94 gears.

Good luck on your build it should turn out to be a really nice versatile street engine :glasses7:

It would wind up around 10:1 but a dish is being machined into the piston to net us a target of 8.9 :1. With the small cam planned and 87 octane ($3.55 US gal) here, economy is still high on the priority list. J.Rob

 

[1970Duster]

It would wind up around 10:1 but a dish is being machined into the piston to net us a target of 8.9 :1. With the small cam planned and 87 octane ($3.55 US gal) here, economy is still high on the priority list. J.Rob

This can be done using gearing as well e.g. Overdrive transmission.

 

[RAMM]

This can be done using gearing as well e.g. Overdrive transmission.

A moot point as this engine will be coupled to a 5 spd manual.

I was referring to the economy of buying 87 octane as opposed to being forced into 91-94 octane.

Anyhoo, the pistons have a dish machined in them and they hold a volume of a tick over 9 cc's and knocked off a total of 22grams for a weight of 572grams. Final compression with + .010" deck height maths out to 9.09:1. Missed it by that much. J.Rob

 

[crackedback]

Very cool.

 

[M.Rob]

Now that our block is mounted on the boring mill, we needed to center the boring head favouring the side by 0.005 to maintain cylinder wall integrity. How we came up with that calculation was thanks to our sonic test earlier on in the project.

 

[Abodybomber]

Nice..... The proper way, to build a engine.

 

[M.Rob]

After the cylinders were bored to our desired size, it was off to our final machining process (to the block that is). Since a boring job is never complete without a honing job, that was our next step. We mounted our block onto our honing machine and then torqued a torque plate. This allows us to machine the cylinders as if the heads were torqued on.

 

[MopaR&D]

With good quench and only 9.1:1 comp that thing should run on 75-octane Mexican gas lol... and still be able to roast the tires on command :burnout:

 

[RAMM]

With good quench and only 9.1:1 comp that thing should run on 75-octane Mexican gas lol... and still be able to roast the tires on command :burnout:

I don't know about 75 octane Mexican but here in Eastern Canada the 87 octane is probably not far off. J.Rob

 

[mech1nxh]

Subscribed & Thanks added!

 

[running]

Great thread!!

 

[M.Rob]

With everything coming together it was time to do touch ups before the assembly of the engine. I grinded the rod caps and ends, applied a lubrication to the bolts before I press fit them in place. Once they were assembled we honed them before we sent them for balancing.

 

[RAMM]

So it took some time but the engine is built and the results are in. MRob has found employment and we haven't been able to find the time to get together and finish this together but I had to get it together as it was "clogging" up the system.

Assembly of the shortblock went without any undue hardships or surprises. Pistons were .008"-.010" positive (target met) combined with the .055" head gaskets should yield great quench. In went the reground hydraulic roller with 205/210 @ .050" on a 112 LSA straight up. The only surprise was a pleasant one when the RPM Air-Gap fit perfectly which I was expecting some milling as we cut .060-.065" from the decks.

Piston to valve was checked and found to be more than adequate--I don't remember exactly but it was .075/.125 or something like that. Pushrods had to be ordered and a set of Manley 5/16" in a 6.850" length were used.

On went a Durango pan and pick-up--it's actually a nicely designed and baffled pan. Here it is. J.Rob

 

[RAMM]

All testing was done with a QFT 600 cfm Vac sec "Slayer" carb. No jetting was warranted, timing was set at 35 total as this seemed to be the sweet spot.

Initial fire up and the first 5 exploratory pulls were performed with the fuel in the tank which was some high 100+ race fuel. Fuel was gone by the 6th pull and testing would wait until the next day. The following morning I picked up 2.5 gals of MacEwen 87--Yes 87 octane @ 98.3 cents/L or about $10.00 CDN. I checked the S.G. of this stuff and it came in @ .725 which was a little lower than the race stuff before it.

Hit the button and it fired up real nice even dead cold. Oil pressure is good even if a little high-60 lbs hot or cold at idle. Manifold vacuum is what I expected @ 18-19" idle. Is this thing going to make any power I thought? A pull from 3500-6000 netted a healthy increase in torque with the pump gas which it should seeing as the comp on this engine is 9.2.

The results 359HP @ 6000 rpm and 375 ft/lbs @ 4100 rpm. What surprised me was power holding on and peaking that high--I figured 5500-5600. I actually saw 380+ ft/lbs more than a few times over the 23 pulls performed. The manifold and MRob's awesome bowl work on the heads is what I attribute the awesome power curve to. J.Rob

 

[RAMM]

This graph illustrates nicely how the engine responded to the fuel it was designed for. Green line represents the race fuel, Red is for 87 pump fuel. J.Rob

 

[moper]

With a 5sp? Start buying tires...lol. Nice work (on both your parts).

 

[2 Darts]

I like what you (collectively) have done here. But on the cheap? Really? You had me until you started carving on the block. I (and I suspect most other FABO members) don't have a machine shop in their garage. Hand held tools, I have; but not bolt to the floor goodies. What's the walk-in price for boring the cylinders and milling the block?

 

[rumblefish360]

You have a good point there but do understand that he is in a machine shop. Certain parts of a certain bud will require certain steps to be taken. If you are rebuilding an engine yourself, these are some of the steps you could take.

Otherwise, a simple bore and home is the basic first step in correcting an old block. My last 360 only required a hone. $60 then after that, it was the rotating assembly cost from scratch with only crank and rods.

$200 for slugs, a few bucks for rings and bearings.
$350 for balancing. For approx. $700, I had my short block ready to go with gaskets.

Heads are a tricky thing. If you can not afford porting and your looking to go fast with a 318, the absolute cheapest way to increase air flow then is with 360 heads. These will not out flow well done (ported) 318 heads but will help a good bunch. (LA engine of course or head milling, but that costs $$$ Magnums are a bit hard to raise the comp ratio because the heads are the same between 318 & a 360.)

I made due with a on the cheap build I documented here some years ago for fun. A dead on compression '79 - 318 with bolt on's and a cam went 15.14 @ 89mph OOTB with tires spinning away at the line on a 40* day. Stock engine & heads.
Wider tires dropped me into the 14's.

For a small cam engine, (216 @ .050) it was a great return on parts used.

Making power like he did sometimes requires that you spend some money on machine work. You could allways sub out the reconditioning of the OE rods for new scat light weight rods and use KB slugs OOTB.

If your engine is in good shape as is, just start bolting parts on and in it.
Remember there's more power in air flow than compression. The lack of compression may make the bottom end a little more soggy than normal. Re- equipped drivetrain s become needed anyway, it will need more converter and gear to I er come the short fall of being a not so perfect combo.

 

[CUDACOX]

Will do! I've never created a thread before, so keeping it updated is something I have to keep in mind. lol.

A little different but I took my 1968 318 block and had it machined 30 over with a stroker kit.It became 390 c.i. and produced 450 h.p and 490 foot lbs trq.Why? because everyone does the 360/408,and when someone wants to look under my 68 Cuda they will see the 68/318 stamped on the block..Enjoy your project!

 

[Abodybomber]

You have a good point there but do understand that he is in a machine shop. Certain parts of a certain bud will require certain steps to be taken. If you are rebuilding an engine yourself, these are some of the steps you could take.

Otherwise, a simple bore and home is the basic first step in correcting an old block. My last 360 only required a hone. $60 then after that, it was the rotating assembly cost from scratch with only crank and rods.

$200 for slugs, a few bucks for rings and bearings.
$350 for balancing. For approx. $700, I had my short block ready to go with gaskets.

Heads are a tricky thing. If you can not afford porting and your looking to go fast with a 318, the absolute cheapest way to increase air flow then is with 360 heads. These will not out flow well done (ported) 318 heads but will help a good bunch. (LA engine of course or head milling, but that costs $$$ Magnums are a bit hard to raise the comp ratio because the heads are the same between 318 & a 360.)

I made due with a on the cheap build I documented here some years ago for fun. A dead on compression '79 - 318 with bolt on's and a cam went 15.14 @ 89mph OOTB with tires spinning away at the line on a 40* day. Stock engine & heads.
Wider tires dropped me into the 14's.

For a small cam engine, (216 @ .050) it was a great return on parts used.

Making power like he did sometimes requires that you spend some money on machine work. You could allways sub out the reconditioning of the OE rods for new scat light weight rods and use KB slugs OOTB.

If your engine is in good shape as is, just start bolting parts on and in it.
Remember there's more power in air flow than compression. The lack of compression may make the bottom end a little more soggy than normal. Re- equipped drivetrain s become needed anyway, it will need more converter and gear to I er come the short fall of being a not so perfect combo.

Truth,spoken here. I am happy on the numbers, nice work. The thing that blows me away:Someone actually seen, resizing stock rods, on a rod hone.( looks like vintage Sunnen, by the guide rod)?

 

[33Mopar]

Many of you who are following this thread may want to know what is happening. I was fortunate enough to meet Jesse and we starting talking engines for my hot rod. Currently 360 with 518 OD and 4.10 gears in a Ford 9". Car is a 1933 Chrysler Royal 8 Sedan hot rod. This car was bought to be a DRIVER. Get in, turn the key and drive ANYWHERE. Yeah I'd love to all kinds of HP but what it came down to was reliability and vacuum and low compression to not be concerned with lousy gas. Jesse told me his son's project fell through and this engine was available for sale. Well it should be installed during the winter months and will be ready for next season. I am so looking forward to having this engine in my rod, it should power it nicely and I am looking forward to updating everyone on it's performance. :burnout:

Steve
'33 Chrysler Royal 8 Hot Rod.

 

[MopaR&D]

I am looking forward to hearing about it! That's a sweet car you got for that 318. With the OD trans and that engine I'd guess low-to-mid 20's in highway MPG definitely a plus for a cruiser.

 

[rumblefish360]

I'd love to see that car! Sounds like a nice cruiser.

 

[33Mopar]

Next year I plan on being at SEVERAL shows including Chryslers at Carlisle