340 valve train noise clacking loudly

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seahawk

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Hey everyone..

I rescently started my newly rebuilt 340 and am hearing a very loud and kinda disturbing noise. I took some videos and hopefully they help. The noise seems to be coming from the passenger side/rear of motor. I did read through a post by Krazed and I think he said it was his exhaust ..he has the same setup as I do and I will check that out. While replacing the lifters everything looked fine, no excessive wear that I can see.

first start: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_tcXlJDYbs"]YouTube - 2010 1009cuda0010[/ame]
second: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2OBp8dsWAA"]YouTube - 2010 1009cuda0011[/ame]
third: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YbuF8va9ik"]YouTube - 2010 1009cuda0012[/ame]
after replacing lifters: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOQiwNQtX18"]YouTube - engine start after new lifters.MP4[/ame]

I'm running:
Comp Cam #20-232-4 Grind crs 280h-10 http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=621&sb=2

Harland Sharp rocker roller http://www.harlandsharp.com/sb_mopar.htm

Edelbrock Performer RPM intake..heads..and carburator
TTi Headers and exhaust

Thanks in Advance
p.s. posting this last video for kicks [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GhLlSC0NXU"]YouTube - 1968 Barracuda.MP4[/ame]
 
I dunno about the motor stuff. But that coupe in black look way cool =P~ Those seats look like Scat Pro's and fit well with the stock rear seats it's looks.

Hope you figure that noise out.
 
Is it a stock bottom end? I had a similar noise when I redid my 340 into a 416 stroker, and it progressively got louder. At first I thought it was the dipstick but later found it was the windage tray being eaten by the crank. Luckily no serious damage was done. My noise was something between an exhaust noise and a metal clanking at first and gradually became all metal sound.

If it's at the rear I would also check your converter bolts. It's worth a shot at this point.

Beautiful car by the way! Good luck!
 
Tough call lookin at an online video, but it does not sound like an exhaust noise.
 
In one of the vid's it was stated that you had no on pressure. I think I'd pull the motor or at least the pan to check it out. Unless you have fixed it already. Make sure the convertor bolts aren't hitting the tin cover? Leave it off and see if it makes a difference.
 
The car is super nice. I'm sure your very proud of it.
 
Well I installed that same # cam in my 318 firered it up and had a very noisy valve train.So posted my problem here and got all kinds of help,some say it was the fast ramp or that cam,mine sounded like a sewing machine,others were saying that there was not enough p reload in my lifters.Than one said read comps foot noats,you must use adjustable rockers and the right length push rods.I never went for the new parts,pulled the 318 rebuilt a 360 with the MP purple cam no noise now.hope you get it quiet.Are those rockers adjustable? I went with the purple cam because I was able to use stock rockers and push rods.
 
Did you degree the cam?

I've spent the last 2 years trying to diagnose the loud clatter in my motor and finally pulled the motor out of the car and tore it apart last weekend. Ends up that the cam is way advanced and the intake valves were hitting the pistons. All 8 of the intake lifters are collapsed and I now have neat little valve reliefs in my flat top pistons. I ran the same cam in the car since 92 or so, and the only thing different is the new timing chain I put in the motor when I put the motor back in the car. Car sounded like it had a diesel motor in it.

I will start a thread on it with a picture, but just thought I might point it out. Don't trust the timing set manufacturer, I will forever be degreeing my cam's from here on out.
 
There are many things that could cause this. The noise is definitely not acceptable, even a solid cam does not make that much noise. First I have a few questions.

1. What is your oil pressure at idle and/or at 2000 rpm (std or HV pump) ?
2. How did you set the valve lash/lifter preload (sequence and amount of preload)?
3. Did you or your friend assemble the engine from the bare block to completion or did you buy the engine assembled?

In order for me to help you I need to know these things. From there
I'll give you things to check. I've built a lot of small blocks and hope I can help.

Eddie Bolton
 
Thanks for all the feedback:

I bought the block prebuilt by a shop that builds performance motors allthough I think mostly Ford and Chevy and some Rice.

The oil pressure was never an issue, when Donald checked it the gauge cluster was not plugged in at the time, we did install the gauge shown and we had about 60 lbs of pressure.

adusting the lash was done with the intake off and to about a 1/4 to 1/2 turn, I did speak with Mike today at Harland Sharp and he told me the minimum is 3/4 to 1 1/4 turn preload on the lifters. This is one thing I will concentrate on when I get it back together.

Right now the timing chain (double roller) is exposed, the oil is drained and I will be pulling the oil pan to inspect it.

I do not know what degreeing the cam means...

I really appreciate all the help here guys, I ordered up the gasket set so I should get it in a couple of days..I will keep you all posted.

I forgot to mention that we did take off the Harland Sharp rocker rollers and installed stock rocker arms off a 273 and the noise persisted. sorry bout that.
 
You running 3/8" or 5/16" push rods? Either way make sure the push rods are not rubbing on the push rod holes going through the heads. Should not be a problem with a flat tappet cam but it is something that needs to be checked.

How does your push rod geometry look? You need to verify that the roller tip contacts the valve tip correctly through the full valve open and close cycle. You may need to run the oil pump as you turn the engine to pump the lifter up. A check spring is a good idea too.

Degreesing the cam refers to the process of getting the cam in perfect sync with the crank shaft. You use a degree wheel, TDC pistons stop, and dial indicator to measure it. You would then use offset cam keys to adjust as needed. Some cam and crank sprockets have different slots and will change the timing based on how they were installed. Check the documentaiton that came with the timing chain set. Definately something that needs to be checked.

Like said above remove the torque converter cover and check if its been hitting the converter bolts.

I would not run it until you check the entire engine over. If it were mine I'd be pulling that thing out and getting it on a stand ASAP.
 
Oil pressure is fine. 1/4 to 1/2 preload is all you need, believe me. I actually run .003 lash on hydraulic race cam in stock eliminator car. The least amount of preload the better--as long as you have SOME. When you adjust them with the intake off just point the lobe 180 degrees from the lifter that you are adjusting. If the intake is on, use the following procedure:

Rotate engine clockwise by hand --

When the exhaust valve JUST BARELY starts to open - adjust the intake on the same cylinder.

When the intake valve has opened all the way, and is ALMOST shut again - adjust the exhaust on that cylinder.

The other thing you should look for is the oil galley plug at the rear of the drivers side lifter galley. It threads in a hole just in front of the distributor shaft. If the intake and distributor are off, reach your hand down and feel it with your finger there should be a pipe plug on the hole. If the intake is still on, take the distributor out, and use a small mirror and a flashlight to try to see it. The plug is in FRONT of the distributor. The one behind the distributor is access hole from the back of the block to install the plug.
If this plug is left out, oil pressure never gets to all the lifters, and they will never pump up.

Hope this helps. If not, don't lose hope--anything can be fixed.

Eddie
 
I don't give a rat's *** what Harland says. If you adjust that much preload into it, you're askin for trouble.
 
hard to tell. guess;busted flexplate,something in contact witht the crank[dipstick,windage tray] or hydraulic lifter wont pump up, broke valvespring. [valves hitting pistons-maybe but not likely [type of noise]
Whatever it is it definitley dont sound good. Good luck anywho!!
 
Finally got to listen to one of the videos. Sure sounds similar to the noise my motor was making.

If it was me, I would pop a valvecover, and pull the rocker on the #1 intake valve. Set up a dial indicator on the intake lobe for #1 when it is on the base circle then run (by hand) the motor up to #1 TDC on compression stroke. Multiple that by the rocker ratio and then find some way to push the #1 intake valve down and try and get some kind of number for how much the valve moves before it hits the piston. Probably best to pop the spring off the valve so you can easily move it down to the piston. Compare the two numbers.

My bet is that you are going to find that the cam is farther up the ramp than the valve has room to move without contacting the piston. This isn't your valve to piston clearance, it's just a quick check to see if the cam is way advanced. If you bolted the motor together like I did mine, and didn't degree the cam or check valve to piston clearance, then just like me you could have a timing chain set that was mis-machined. Mine is about 40 degrees advanced.

That is unless you either checked the valve to piston clearnace or degreed the cam.

Not the simplest method, but the best I could think of without pulling the motor apart.
 
the motor is out of the car, unfortunately we found another collapsed lifter..unfortunately we found it after the motor was out. Well it's ok because at least we can look at everything else very closely. I did order the a new cam/lifter package ( Edelbrock 7177 ) and timing chain (Edelbrock 7803) hopefully these lifters will work with out a hitch. the first set of lifters we found a collapsed lifter..the second set of lifters we found a collapsed lifter..what are the odds?
 
IMO you should while it's out get on You-tube and learn on how to degree the Cam, BIG-plus.
 
Better pull the pan and check out the bearings while you have it out.
I'm having about the same luck with Comp lifter's. Mine almost always clatter a little when first fired up cold. I'm seriously thinking of going with a Hughs roller cam and lifters.
 
Make sure your don't have valve spring coil bind or the retainer bottoming out on the guide.
 
jefflock said:
Better pull the pan and check out the bearings while you have it out.
I'm having about the same luck with Comp lifter's. Mine almost always clatter a little when first fired up cold. I'm seriously thinking of going with a Hughs roller cam and lifters.[/ jefflock are you running comp soild rollers?
Click to expand...
 
Sounds like a lifter or 2 not pumping up to me. I had all kinds of problems with comp lifters not pumping up a couple yrs back. Swapped it out for a Lunati cam and lifters and solved the problem.

And there is no reason at all why Harlan Sharp rockers should be any noisier than any other rockers. I have ran almost every rocker arm on the market (save the super expensive arms) and as long as the geometry was correct had no problems or excess noise. Harlan Sharp's are among the best on the market IMO. 1/4~1/2 turn of preload is plenty. Like Boltone, many other racers run very little preload and have no problems.

340fastback has a good point of checking the valve springs for bind and/or the retainers hitting the guides.
 
We appreciate all your input..your not going to believe this.. back in "02" I walked into the SpeedMerchant in San Jose and ordered Edelbrock Performance RPM package, heads, intake, carb, I told them I have a small block 340, the heads I recieved were small block heads #60779 63cc combustion chamber but not the heads for the 340 #60179 65cc combustion chamber. When we pulled the motor this time, we did it to pull the heads as we have checked everyyyyything else. We noticed the pistons coming out of their sleeves just a wee bit,(18 thousands) the pistons were slapping the deck of the heads and that's what was causing all that racket. The heads are going to the machine shop to have a recess cut into them to accomadate the pistons. You can see where the heads and the tops of the pistons were actually slapping.. shiny little spots about the size of a June bug. Their does not appear to be any damage beyond that. I will look into degreeing the cam, now that the motor is out of the car. Thanks you guys for all your help.

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/cylheads/chrysler/sb_perf_rpm1.shtml
 
I know this might sound too easy to overlook but could the rocker shafts be on backwards or upside-down? Comp Cams do have steep ramps on many of their cams which will make the valves closing noisy. Could a rocker be hitting the valve cover? Or with oversize springs, perhaps a valve spring rubbing the edge of a valve cover?
 
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