Penstarpurist
Well-Known Member
But thank you for the offer.
351w
- Thread starter Penstarpurist
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diymirage
HP@idle > hondaHP@redline
not a problem man
one thing i have noticed with my 351, the thermostat housing has a recess for the thermostat to sit in
(simple enough, right?)
now, none of the aftermarket housings i've found have this
so if you are going with an aftermarket thermostat housing, you need to machine the intake, the housing, or the thermostat so it all fits together and doesnt leak
one thing i have noticed with my 351, the thermostat housing has a recess for the thermostat to sit in
(simple enough, right?)
now, none of the aftermarket housings i've found have this
so if you are going with an aftermarket thermostat housing, you need to machine the intake, the housing, or the thermostat so it all fits together and doesnt leak
Penstarpurist
Well-Known Member
That's amazing that they dont manufacture that into an aftermarket intake. I may have to take you up on the factory 4bbl one if I can't make an aftermarket one work.
Ask @TrailBeast about that. He used that same grind cam I have in the RobKat 302 in his 360. He loves it.
The 351 Windsors didn't have 2-barrel and 4-barrel heads, but the Clevelands did. Cleveland 4-barrel heads had bigger ports and valves, although the 2-barrel heads still flowed well. I have a set of D0OE 351 Windsor heads on my 289 Mustang. They're OK, nothing special...they have a smaller chamber than later 351W heads. I had the machinist cc one of the chambers, and it came out at 58.5cc after a bit of milling. That equaled about 9:1 with flat top pistons in a 289. I didn't check any closer than that because I'm not dealing with a fast car here, so I don't care THAT much. 
Coronet 500
Well-Known Member
My son is a big Ford and Mustang guy, I back halved his '88 and advised him on his 351W build. What I learned is the oiling system is good oem heads not too good for big power. The aftermarket has any and everything, refurbishing old iron could be the same cost as new cylinder heads.
Swapping these older V8's is so easy with K frames and all kinds of oil pans available. Makes me a little sick, I wish these things were available to us Mopar lovers.
Swapping these older V8's is so easy with K frames and all kinds of oil pans available. Makes me a little sick, I wish these things were available to us Mopar lovers.
Unconventional
Well-Known Member
Oiling was the Cleveland's big down fall.
Penstarpurist
Well-Known Member
My sons have decided its gotta go in the mustang. I guess I can always put the little 4 cylinder perkins diesel engine in my ranger. That's what it came out of was an older ranger. All whopping 50 hp. The 3.8 in the mustang is shot anyways.
Since when? I do agree the oil drain back leaves a little to be desired, but proper prep takes care of that. Care to elaborate on the rest?
Here is a good article on it.
Techtips - Ford 351 Cleveland Engines: Lubrication
There's really nothing any different than any other oiling system. Good for street engines to 6K RPM. Most any other make engine will need help above that as well. The Cleveland actually needs very little "help" as the article states.
Techtips - Ford 351 Cleveland Engines: Lubrication
There's really nothing any different than any other oiling system. Good for street engines to 6K RPM. Most any other make engine will need help above that as well. The Cleveland actually needs very little "help" as the article states.
Isn't the Windsor the same "size" as the 302? like a 318 and 360? I would think the Windsor would fit just like a 289. The Modifieds and Clevelands were bigger
No. The 351W is both taller and wider than its Windsor cousins. Makes the intake manifold wider, too. Much like the difference between the R and RB engines.
ok. I thought the 351W was the same as the 302's. LOL... Man, by the naked eye, they sure are close. Guy in town had a pair of 2 door Granada's. one 302, the other a Windsor. Couldn't tell by look'n.
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you know what's interesting? I had a Cleveland, and some really good Ford guys couldn't decide if it was a big block or small block.... LOL. I've had some 302's, 289's, a Windsor, a Cleveland in small block Ford. My personal favorite was the 289 (even though the Cleveland had more power).
67redcudavert
Well-Known Member
I worked at a parts store doing shopwork from '70 to '73. Back then Ford did some kind of cost reduction in the metallurgy of the heads that caused lots of problems.
The local Ford dealer started sending us 351W heads on a regular basis that had as much as a quarter inch of play in the valve guide and the valve seat all wallowed out. These were heads with 15 to 20,000 miles on them. These were 71 or 72 heads. Usually just one or two valves would be bad, not all of them.
The dealer had a pile of bad heads he sold us cheap, we repaired the guides and seats so we had a fresh head ready to go in exchange the next time a bad one came in the back door.
So if you have some early 70s 351W heads look closely at them. They might have been repaired somewhere in the past.
The local Ford dealer started sending us 351W heads on a regular basis that had as much as a quarter inch of play in the valve guide and the valve seat all wallowed out. These were heads with 15 to 20,000 miles on them. These were 71 or 72 heads. Usually just one or two valves would be bad, not all of them.
The dealer had a pile of bad heads he sold us cheap, we repaired the guides and seats so we had a fresh head ready to go in exchange the next time a bad one came in the back door.
So if you have some early 70s 351W heads look closely at them. They might have been repaired somewhere in the past.
furyus2
Well-Known Member
For what it costs to have the stock heads redone, it would be better to buy a set of edelbrock rpms. I ran a 351w in my 65 Falcon, and with the eddy heads, .530 something lift comp cam, 10 to 1 compression, it went high 11s. I think they are great engines. Small block Fords were always known for poor heads . JMO.
That debate rages on to this day. The Cleveland family (the 335 series) consists of the 351C, 351M and 400. All of which are small blocks. You cannot talk to people who believe they are big blocks. They are not, yet there are those who will go to their graves believing otherwise.
Penstarpurist
Well-Known Member
Lol. I told my boys the same thing. That they are small blocks, until you get into the m series which are "medium" blocks. But like you said, some guys are so dead set on their opinions. I told them the same thing that there is an eternal debate on Cleveland or Windsor. Which is better?
351 Windsor was a small block; 351 Modified was a big block. One glance it was easy to tell.....
351 Windsor was a small block; 351 Modified was a big block. One glance it was easy to tell.....
Nope. 351M and 400 are both small blocks. You don't differentiate big and small block by physical size. The 221-400 all have the same bore spacing. The heads will interchange, because the bolt patterns are the same. Ford always referred to the 335 series (351C, 351M and 400) as small blocks, because they were.
What confuses people most is the fact that Ford used the big block bellhousing pattern on the 351M and 400, so people thought they were big blocks. They are not.
I was kidding... LOL
yes, the bell housings confused a lot of folks. I was told when I had my Cleveland, that 351M heads were the same. - Look folks, make no mistake about it! Fords are confusing! 3/8 on one end of the brake line and 5/16 on the other??? LOL
I was kidding... LOL
- Look folks, make no mistake about it! Fords are confusing! 3/8 on one end of the brake line and 5/16 on the other??? LOL
That was true. The 351C, 351M and 400 heads are all interchangeable. 100%. A lot even have the same casting numbers.
67redcudavert
Well-Known Member
It could also be the appearance of the two engines that confuses people as well. The heads on the 351C 351M and 400 make those engines look bigger than the 351W looks.
Absolutely. The heads are quite large. "About" the same size as the big block Chevy heads.
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