360-383 A-debate...max builds need not apply.

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sccachallenger said:
So these days with relatively affordable alum heads for the big block, should these be considered "max build" parts or not? I haven't looked in awhile but I know a pair was around $1100 for a long time.
So should we consider new alloy heads "max build" ?
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Also @MOPARMAGA

I suppose if the heads are good to go and/or you just want to run iron heads, great! We all have seen what Jim (IQ52) gets from porting them. Though that may be a problem these days with everyone spoiled by aluminum?
IDK.

@fishmens67 makes a good point on the inexpensive aluminum head by compare to rebuilding and then porting the OE iron. I guess you would want to do that rather than get new aluminum heads. TF’s or otherwise.

The valve size & flow advantages are huge over a small block head even with only 23 more cubes, it’ll show up big.

I don’t think aluminum heads should be discarded from this exercise. Mostly due to the cost factor for ether engine series. IMO, it just makes good sense.

Still, getting into the low 13’s or even high 12’s could be done with stock heads. Especially in an A body. You may not like the way it runs and idles, but it is do-able.
 
rumblefish360 said:
Also @MOPARMAGA

I suppose if the heads are good to go and/or you just want to run iron heads, great! We all have seen what Jim (IQ52) gets from porting them. Though that may be a problem these days with everyone spoiled by aluminum?
IDK.

@fishmens67 makes a good point on the inexpensive aluminum head by compare to rebuilding and then porting the OE iron. I guess you would want to do that rather than get new aluminum heads. TF’s or otherwise.

The valve size & flow advantages are huge over a small block head even with only 23 more cubes, it’ll show up big.

I don’t think aluminum heads should be discarded from this exercise. Mostly due to the cost factor for ether engine series. IMO, it just makes good sense.

Still, getting into the low 13’s or even high 12’s could be done with stock heads. Especially in an A body. You may not like the way it runs and idles, but it is do-able.
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I thought I was just playing by the rules of the thread lol, I do prefer all the aluminum stuff possible & not stock components for myself.
 
MOPARMAGA said:
I thought I was just playing by the rules of the thread lol, I do prefer all the aluminum stuff possible & not stock components for myself.
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I think you were! I’m just sayin…… LOL!
IMO, for me, if I had to stick to just the stock as delivered all iron engine, I’d do a 360. IF the options to open up (and a drag car was the goal) but the idea is still, “On The Cheap” as in OOTB parts, no porting, nothing crazy, dual plane intake, cheap headers, ether will do fine but I’d go with the 383.
If the car see’s twisting roads, as long as it wasn’t a competition arena, ether would be fine with an edge to the small block.
For your average street car, owners choice. Both would do well.

I did have a ‘78-400/727 in my ‘71 Duster for a while. The power was down for the year of the engine. It was actually darn poor. My son-in-law and I slammed in 4.88’s in the 8-3/4. Took it up to the Main Street a mile away and proceeded to pick on the local ricers for a few weeks. We had a blast. The light to light distance was short which favored us big time.

All we did was throw on a Holley Street Dominator & a big TQ, B body headers, and triggered it with a Summit racing ignition box. (MSD later on) It’s amazing what that big 250?!?! HP engine did with those gears and a car weight of maybe 3K. Lots of laughs.
 
Pt. 2

We literally used all the junk we had laying around.
I forgot the aluminum radiator, water pump and housing from 440source.com
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Garrett Ellison said:
This is a dangerous thread for me to read right now. If I come across a 383 or 400 right now, I may very well pull the 360 off the stand, sell everything I've accumulated thus far for it, and start over.... :realcrazy::lol:
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I have both that I most likely will not use a 383 bare block standard bore, and a running complete 400.
WV is not that far from you.
 
Another thing to consider is longevity & reliability. Hard to beat cast iron. Should the engine over heat with CI heads, good chance the heads will not be damaged. Overheating alum heads can soften the heat treating & then they blow head gaskets after that....unless they are re-heat treated.
Over the long term, the head gaskets will 'wear out' with alum heads/iron block. Every time the heads heat up, they slide over the head gasket due to the higher expansion rate; then they slide back the other way when the engine cools down. Eventually enough wear occurs that clamping force is lost & the gasket breaches. This was why TTY bolts were developed for alum heads. The extra 'springiness' these bolts have help to compensate for the lost clamping force. I don't they make TTY fasteners for our old stuff.
Then there is the corrosion factor with alum heads.
So if you want to have trouble free operation for many years, there is a lot to be said for CI heads IF they provide the reqd performance level.
 
@Bewy
Then there is the corrosion factor with alum heads.
So if you want to have trouble free operation for many years, there is a lot to be said for CI heads IF they provide the reqd performance level.
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Can’t argue that one for sure. Iron block particulates floating around with the anti freeze. Also, how many of us use tap water with there coolant? Heavy metals and minerals in the tap water also slowly go to work on the aluminum.
 
Bewy said:
Another thing to consider is longevity & reliability. Hard to beat cast iron. Should the engine over heat with CI heads, good chance the heads will not be damaged. Overheating alum heads can soften the heat treating & then they blow head gaskets after that....unless they are re-heat treated.
Over the long term, the head gaskets will 'wear out' with alum heads/iron block. Every time the heads heat up, they slide over the head gasket due to the higher expansion rate; then they slide back the other way when the engine cools down. Eventually enough wear occurs that clamping force is lost & the gasket breaches. This was why TTY bolts were developed for alum heads. The extra 'springiness' these bolts have help to compensate for the lost clamping force. I don't they make TTY fasteners for our old stuff.
Then there is the corrosion factor with alum heads.
So if you want to have trouble free operation for many years, there is a lot to be said for CI heads IF they provide the reqd performance level.
Click to expand...
That maybe true for engines designed for iron heads but newer engines designed with aluminum heads in mind have alot less head gasket issues than one would think.
We get alot of high mile engines in the shop I work for that have never had head gasket issues & it's surprising that most of those heads can be resurfaced with minimal passes, however I have had a few overheated, overworked & ill-maintained heads be so warped it took .020 to get the 1st surface pass
 
I didn't factor in AL heads on either build. Still going with the weight penalty of the 383 vs the reduced cubes penalty of the 360.
 
Food for thought...how many 383 Darts did the factory produce and sell? Wasnt the 383 optional on the GTS? Also, there are tales of Mr Norm stuffing big blocks in with febnderwell headers where the front tires rubbed, increasing the turn radius of the car. Not very desirable on the street. 1/4 mile car, yes I can see that. Basically the B/RB engine barely fits, sacrificing the aforementioned amenities I listed in a previous post( power steering brakes etc.)
 
barbee6043 said:
I had a 67 Cuda original 383 car. PO installed over size front sway bar. Rode and drove great, cornered super good. Loved that car! It had oe exh man.
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Must have been a rare option car. I dont believe they made alot or not many chose to equip the a body with that drivetrain.. did it have manual brakes and steering?
 
Well soon I will have a fresh 030 383 headers, xe274 cam , intake , 750 carb lightly touched stealth heads , 3.55 sure grip , hughes 24- 30 converter and shift kit in my clone runner.
Will let you guys know how it goes ?
 
Dartswinger70 said:
Must have been a rare option car. I dont believe they made alot or not many chose to equip the a body with that drivetrain.. did it have manual brakes and steering?
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I sold it in late 90s. I don't remember for sure but i think it had ps. Non't know about brakes. It originally was an auto and the Po had changed it over to 4 speed. Yes those were fairly rare.
 
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