360 instal, going on 3 days, need help

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Please don't make these assumptions until you find the problem. Don't discount ANYTHING, especially after the troubles you had getting it lined up.
 
screeminDemon said:
You guys have given me some good stuff to think of and check out. Alignment, alignment, alignment - I think thats where I went wrong... but maybe its a burr on the spline (tranny shaft).... or lack of prime?

I did not prime the cylinders with motor oil first. Could it be that simple to solve? I applied alot of assembly lube to the cylinders when I was building so I figured it good enough...

I suppose its worth trying before I start ripping stuff apart.
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No, you take a long shaft that fits in to the oil pump and spin the oil pump for a few mins while once in a while turning the crankshaft a few turns.

This gets oil in to all the passages and bearing. lifters, up in to the rockers, etc.
 
Update - Finally had time to drop the a833 and look at the clutch and pilot and stuff (see pics):

Everything looked good, to my surprise, and I had to examine closely to figure out what went wrong. Clearly the a833 input shaft went all the way into the crankshaft and there were no visible damages to anything. I think I know what it is: I think evidence shows the shoulder of the a833 input shaft (the part of the shaft that begins to taper larger as you get close to the splines) was hard up against the pilot bearing, causing the metal drag/scrape that I heard when trying to start. There is some wear evident on the inner edges of the pilot bearing and on the input shaft shoulder where it probably was rubbing What do you guys think?

I think my mistake was not pushing the pilot bearing into the crankshaft enough. The manual I use did not tell me how far to shove it in. How far should that little bastard be pushed in?

Thanks again for your help!
 

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Darn thing LOOKS like it's flush, or nearly so

I think it's time for some serious measurements:

Put the bell back on, so you can measure from the trans mount face, and rig yourself an accurate depth gauge. Something like a piece of straigtht rod with a set collar, and something solid across the bell, a level, heavy straightedge, etc.

Measure down to the bottom of the pilot hole, the top of the pilot bushing, and compare to the length of your shaft to the gearbox face.

While you have it this far down, I'd yank the PP and inspect the front of the disc for interference on the flywheel / bolts. That is EXACTLY the problem I had with one disc, supposedly "compatible", in fact, I still have the disc. Try to remember to post a photo.
 
67Dart273 said:
Darn thing LOOKS like it's flush, or nearly so
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Should it be flush to the outer edge of the crank like that (its actually pushed in about 1/8") or should I push it in 1/2" or 1" or something like that. Theres plenty of room to push it in further...

Thanks for your input 67Dart, and I will be sure to check the clutch disk and pressure plate.
 
On the 64 Valiant I mate the engine and trans out of the car and install as one unit.....yeah you have to pull the radiator and remove the fan to do this, but IMHO it's the easiest way to make sure everything is lined up and installed correctly....JM.02 and best of luck getting it sorted out...!!!!

Rickster
 
Well I took it apart yesterday and examined everything... and came up empty. Everything looks fine! As crazy as it sounds I was really hoping to find something bent or broken, or at least some evidence of wear/rubbing somewhere. I'm uploading a couple of pics but theres not much to look at really...

There was a couple of burrs on the spline shaft, which I filed. The burrs were probably caused when I was installing. But I'm fairly confident everything went together, with shaft going thru disk and into pilot bushing, so I really don't know what was wrong. I'm putting it back together today, so any suggestions or advice are more than welcome!

PS - I measured all distances and tolerances over and over. Everything should fit.
 

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screeminDemon said:
Well I took it apart yesterday and examined everything... and came up empty. Everything looks fine! As crazy as it sounds I was really hoping to find something bent or broken, or at least some evidence of wear/rubbing somewhere. I'm uploading a couple of pics but theres not much to look at really...

There was a couple of burrs on the spline shaft, which I filed. The burrs were probably caused when I was installing. But I'm fairly confident everything went together, with shaft going thru disk and into pilot bushing, so I really don't know what was wrong. I'm putting it back together today, so any suggestions or advice are more than welcome!

PS - I measured all distances and tolerances over and over. Everything should fit.
Click to expand...

Like stated prior I would really setup the trans out of the car as one unit.....use offset dowl pins to assure everything is lined up correctly with no bind.... .02

Rickster
 
Your pilot bushing needs to be pushed in flush!!!

I need pictures of the clutch disc on both sides to tell you which one faces the pressure plate and which side is the flywheel....
The side that is flush is the flywheel side,the side that the spring plate sticks up 1/4 inch goes in the pressure plate facing the tranny.Is that how it was installed???
TXDart
 
TXDart said:
Your pilot bushing needs to be pushed in flush!!!


TXDart
Click to expand...

Do you mean I need to drive it in some more? because I'm not sure what you mean by flush?

PS - yes I got the disk in the right way, as you described. also it was pre-marked flywheel side

PS2 - I dont want to assemble it all as one unit because I don't want to pull the engine and mess with those damn headers again

Thanks for your help!
 
the picture may not show it very well but the pilot bushing is pushed in flush (actually its pushed in about 1/8" beyond flush)
 
screeminDemon said:
the picture may not show it very well but the pilot bushing is pushed in flush (actually its pushed in about 1/8" beyond flush)
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Then you are good !!!
Puzzling what was making the noise.If you see evidence of the main shaft and the pilot bushing rubbing,that had to be it!

Did you have the shifter installed?
Maybe it was just barely held in gear?
But it would have sounded like gears grinding.
Good luck and keep us posted.

TXDart
P.S. Next time you have to do a clutch,you will be a pro at it !!!
 
One thing you need to CAREFULLY measure is the distance from the bell face to the bottom of the pilot hole, compared to the distance from the tip of the input shaft to the bell face of the gearbox.

If by chance you have an "auto" crank the pilot cavity may not be deep enough.
 
67Dart273 said:
One thing you need to CAREFULLY measure is the distance from the bell face to the bottom of the pilot hole, compared to the distance from the tip of the input shaft to the bell face of the gearbox.

If by chance you have an "auto" crank the pilot cavity may not be deep enough.
Click to expand...

Thats one of the things that was scaren me, but I installed it this afternoon and it felt pretty good goin together. I threw every measurement test at it yesterday and it passed them all.

I hand cranked it after getting it hooked up and it felt fine. So tomorow I just have a few more things to hook up and then try start again and pray for the best.

Thanks for stayin with me dart!
 
PS - I put in a new starter too... replaced the used one I was using that was given me by a friend. You don't think a bad starter couldv been making that scraping sound do ya?

Thanks for all your awesome troubleshooting advice 67Dart and TXDart!
 
Starter, maybe, not real likely, but it could happen
 
some possibilities, just thinkin out loud here off the top of my head so dont get mad if some of this sounds crazy. Is the throwout beaaring compatible with the 3 finger clutch?
Could a windage tray be scraping? How about the dipstick? I have heard of all three of these problems causing a scraping sound. Does the sound change any when you depress the clutch pedal? BTW, dont forget your clutch pedal adjustment. (I think your clutch setup is fine as far as input/ bearing/ disc goes. To check the throwout bearing, peel back the rubber boot of the clutch fork and give 'er a good ol' eyeball inspection. I dont omagine this would be the prob. but you cant discount anything. Good luck, youll figure it out!
 
those are good suggestions for the scraping sound, thanks. After getting everything buttoned up I tried starting it yesterday with the coil wire unpluggd because I just wanted to hear what it sounded like before going for the start. It turned over at a normal speed this time and I still thought I heard a scraping sound but more minimal this time. Could it be that its just the sound of a fresh motor and I havent heard one in many years?

So I decided to go for the start with wifey standing by with the fire extinguisher and watching for leaks. It fired it up and sounded good! ...for about 1 minute and then gushed a big oil leak from the oil filter so I had to shut it down.

It must have leaked from the base plate that attaches to the engine because I checked the oil filter and it was tight and the rubber seal was good. I was able to tighten the base plate, but it was already pretty tight. I may have made a mistake there on assembly... with the gasket or o-ring or something
 
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