3g Hemi Rebuild Guide?

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Map63Vette

Map63Vette

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So I think I've finally decided I want to do a 3g hemi swap in my 67 Dart, though it will be some time in the future before I have the money to put all the parts together. After looking around some I noticed that there really isn't much info out there about taking apart these new hemis for rebuilds or upgrades. I saw the Horsepower TV episode a while back where they did the stock rebuild with the 4 bbl throttle body injection setup, but I don't have it recorded anymore and didn't want to pay $2 to download a copy of it. That being said, I'm sure there are several people on this site that have done plenty of work on the new hemi, so I was wondering if anyone would be willing to start up a thread on doing a full teardown and rebuild of a new hemi complete with all the pictures and parts list along the way. I have heard that the new engines mainly use O rings to seal, so you don't necessarily need a full gasket kit like with older engines since you can potentially reuse the O rings, but I'd love to see some pictures with my own eyes to confirm all this stuff before buying an engine and taking it apart just to find out I need to track down some obscure gasket that no one mentions. I'm sure a lot of people out there would be interested in seeing a well documented build of one of these for their own projects, so would anyone with some experience be willing to step up and provide a guide or point me in the direction of one that I have missed?
 
Ok I will tear my hemi back down in a week or so and do a full right up on what I'm doing with photos. The 3rd Gen Hemi is a nicely put together package and is pretty straight forward to rebuild. Most of the external gaskets can be reused but things like the oil pan and head gaskets need to be replaced. The cam bearings are a bear to mess with because when you replace them you need to hone them to size so hopefully you get a motor that won't need them to be replaced. All of the bolts are torque to yield so they need to be replaced everytime which after watching that episode of hotrod TV they didn't mention that. The aftermarket is starting to really embrace these engines with more and more people offering performance parts and they can produce some really impressive hp numbers with the right combo. Head and cam 05-up Chargers and Magnums are pushing the 11 second zone in a 4400 lb car with 450-500 rwhp.
 
Awesome, that would be really nice to see. Thanks for stepping up and taking the time to help out. As far torquing the bolts, are the only real ones you need to worry about head bolts and such, or everything on the engine? I wouldn't think the torque issues on the oil pan bolts and such would be too big a problem, but I can definately see replacing head bolts.
 
Map63Vette said:
Awesome, that would be really nice to see. Thanks for stepping up and taking the time to help out. As far torquing the bolts, are the only real ones you need to worry about head bolts and such, or everything on the engine? I wouldn't think the torque issues on the oil pan bolts and such would be too big a problem, but I can definately see replacing head bolts.
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with o rings its a good idea to torque but I can't see everything being torque to yeild thats mostly for stuff with pressure against it such as head gaskets and sometimes intakes but I have ate my words before
 
The head bolts and main bolts are tty one time use bolts everything else is good to reuse. I would also recommend a 6.1 timing set and oil pump for anyone running a custom cam or any upgraded valve springs they are far superior to the 5.7 stuff
 
For those who haven't figured it out yet I'm kinda ocd on the 3rd gen stuff. I love the engine and it just plain works.
 
The head gasket's a Felpro MLS. I've reused them before using the proper care and handling that all MLS gaskets require. You'll want to replace the heads and mains, cam and crank bolts and are reletivly cheap from the dealer. If deciding to use ARP main studs, you must line hone the mains for proper bearing squish. The oil pan/ windage tray is also ruseable if you take your time removing it without damage. I'd also replace the front and rear main seals, again very reasonable from the dealer. Cleavite makes cam bearings, but as stated above, sometimes they fit, sometimes they don't so I took an old camshaft and file cut, cutting grooves in the journals and trim the cam bearings down with it. I'm in the process of freshening up my 6.1/392. Burnt the #8 exhaust valve. I can post up pic's as I put her back together. Here are some from the tear down.
 

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Make sure you torque the Rocker arms to correct specs as well. Ask me how I know :angry7:
 
How far does the balancer go on? When I put mine back on with a install tool, it stop going on and has about 1/8 inch to be flush with the crank. Is this right or does it need to go on further? Got to know ricky tick, motor/trans go back in on Saturday. A picture would help if someone has one.
 
you guys mentioned the head and main bolts being tty but forgot the rod bolts. They must be replaced as well. I always replace head and oil pan gaskets. It's not worth the work to go back in and fix a leak. Valve cover bots and intake bolts can be reused. I have had my motor torn down a good 4-5 times and never replaced those. Nor the gaskets for them. And have not had any sort of leak. The best exhaust manifold gasket your money can buy is the factory ones. They are about 8.00 each at the dealer, and way better than any aftermarket ones.i have replaced about 25-30 of them and none have leaked, I would never use anything else.
 
Map63Vette...
Subscribed!! Great Thread! & Thx to all Members for the posts...

hemidup,

Cleavite makes cam bearings, but as stated above, sometimes they fit, sometimes they don't so I took an old camshaft and file cut, cutting grooves in the journals and trim the cam bearings down with it.
Click to expand...

Just a straight 'cut' on the journals, or a (for lack of better terminology)
a semi-spiral?

Can a standard / universal cam bearing tool set be used to install?
or is this 'machine shop voodoo magic' (lol) stuff?

Thx All ...

Apologies Map63Vette, not trying to hijack the thread :-D
 
Definitely a good motor that makes 400+ hp with a mild cam/valvespring change. Two types of timing cover arrangements - car and truck. MDS and NON MDS and now VVT. If your motor has MDS, it will need to be removed.
For guys on a budget, the charm here is you can take a used motor and not worry about the bottom end. The usual upgrades - cam, springs, headers, intake is all it needs for a swap. However, don't be fooled into thinking its an economical swap, because it isn't, but worthwhile. ARP is now making head studs for about 250/set, however as previously mentioned the OE stretch bolts are inexpensive.
Many parts are reuseable like mentioned earlier. Head gaskets are MLS, no reason why they can't be reused if undamaged. Oil pan gasket/windage tray is silicone. All other assemblies are silicone o ring style too.
To swap to an A body, you'll probably wind up with a truck style timing cover. Don't forget the motor mounts, oil pan, headers, tranny adapter/flexplate, kickdown linkage/bracketry, induction decision, electric fan, electric fuel pump, radiator, oil filter relocation, custom AC hoses, power steering delete pulley.
 
Thanks for all the replies guys, it's nice to see so much information finally coming together. As far as the heads and main bolts thing, does anyone make a plain replacement bolt (not stud) that isn't TTY? I know it wouldn't be too hard to get new stuff from the parts counter (wish I could say that for the rest of my car), but I like the idea of getting more than one shot to torque the bolts down in case I forgot something I had to pull them back off. Also, how bad is it to delete the MDS? I have mainly been looking for an 03-05 truck engine to start with anyway so I didn't have to deal with it, but I saw XV or someone makes a delete kit, just an extra $200 or something I didn't necessarily want to have to spend.
 
well $200 seems about right, you nave to replace $ lifters and the retainers as well.pull a vin off of a truck on ebay, (03 to 05) walk in to the parts counter and order 4 lifters and 4 retiners. if you buy a truck motor i would avoid the 03's they were the first year and had valve spring problems. now if your going to swap the cam you will need to swap the springs so it will not matter. if you swap the springs get 16 6.1 exhaust springs and run those they are way cheaper than the aftermarket stuff and rairly fail (its so rare that i not even remember the last one that i herd about) now if you plan on really high rev's or a really wild cam then they will have problems. but most will never see that.
 
Hmm, thanks for all the stuff to think about. I think my current plan is to pretty much just stuff the engine in in stock trim and get the car running. Then, down the road I hope to do a cam and head upgrade. I would do it all at once, but it almost doubles the current cost I'm looking at to get the heads and cam I want. I figure too that a cam and head swap wouldn't be too bad to do with the engine in the car. It would be cramped, but not as bad as trying to pull out the bottom end and replace it while the block is in the car.
 
after dropping the motor in my car I would agree with you. It looks like it's doable in the car. It really just comes down to removal of the cam. I don't know if there is enough room. I have about 8 cams laying around I'll look and see if it might be possible. And I'll get you some pics this weekend of a cam in front of the motor and we can see if it's possible. At least then you will know if it needs to come out or not.
 
Yeah, I figure worst case I could pull the radiator to give myself the extra room. If it really came down to it I guess I could pull the grille as well and really try to open up the front end to give myself the room I need. I have heard that the heads are a tight fit around a lot of the pieces in the engine bay, but I could always remove the stuff that gets in the way first like the steering column and master cylinder without too much trouble. Thanks again for all the feedback so far, all the talk and pictures are getting me excited to really start looking for parts to collect.
 
johnparts said:
And in sequence too. Seen a few break rocker shafts around here.
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I've found it best to tq the rockershaft bolts in sequence, then hand turn the crank 180 degree's and recheck the tq. I've worked on a couple engines where whoever was inside of it before me from a DIY cam swap crushed the rockershaft out of round to the point where I couldn't slide the rocker arms off the rockershaft. Talk about tq. lol Also high rpm puts stress on the exhaust side rockershaft stantions to the point where I've seen them crack. I whipped up some of these in my spare time to help tie the exhaust side rockershafts to the intake side. They also help to dampen the valve train harmonics. They must work cause Mopar Performance now offers a simliar piece for 2011.
 

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mech1nxh said:
Map63Vette...
Subscribed!! Great Thread! & Thx to all Members for the posts...

hemidup,



Just a straight 'cut' on the journals, or a (for lack of better terminology)
a semi-spiral?

Can a standard / universal cam bearing tool set be used to install?
or is this 'machine shop voodoo magic' (lol) stuff?

Thx All ...

Apologies Map63Vette, not trying to hijack the thread :-D
Click to expand...

Diagnal cut across the journal (poor mans tool) and you can use a universal cam bearing tool.
 
Map63Vette said:
Thanks for all the replies guys, it's nice to see so much information finally coming together. As far as the heads and main bolts thing, does anyone make a plain replacement bolt (not stud) that isn't TTY? I know it wouldn't be too hard to get new stuff from the parts counter (wish I could say that for the rest of my car), but I like the idea of getting more than one shot to torque the bolts down in case I forgot something I had to pull them back off. Also, how bad is it to delete the MDS? I have mainly been looking for an 03-05 truck engine to start with anyway so I didn't have to deal with it, but I saw XV or someone makes a delete kit, just an extra $200 or something I didn't necessarily want to have to spend.
Click to expand...

Yes, Good head bolts are now available, but they cost the same as studs...In fact they might cost a tad more??? Remember if you go with the bolts or studs, you'll need to line hone the block with the caps tightened down to get proper bearing crush. ARP doesn't give you a torque number. In fact I was doing just this today.
 

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does the main stud kit have studs for the side bolts or do you still use a bolt? Hope that makes sense. Also the girdles you made what do they sell for. I want to rev the motor and need all the help ican get
 
03ramit1 said:
does the main stud kit have studs for the side bolts or do you still use a bolt? Hope that makes sense. Also the girdles you made what do they sell for. I want to rev the motor and need all the help ican get
Click to expand...

No. You have to order them seperate from the kit and yes, they're studs. When we were working with ARP in developing a head and main stud kit for the new Hemi's we forgot about giving them info on the through bolts. Oop's. Those main studs you see in the above pic are the very first set of ARP Hemi studs ever produced. ARP didn't make the through studs until well my engine was built. After tearing down my engine and noticed no sign of cap walk, I felt there was no reason for me to use the ARP through studs so I just ordered up 10 new factory through bolts from the dealer. We can talk about the rocker tie downs when your getting close. As of now, we only use and install them on our Stock/Super Stock Eliminator engine builds.
 
Yeah, I would consider head studs if I wasn't thinking about removing the heads while in the car at some point. I'm not sure just how much room I would have to pull up on the heads before they might run into something. Can someone give me an eyeball idea of what it might be like? I know the master cylinder is pretty much right in the way and the steering column is close, but I think more out of the way once clearanced. I could always unbolt either and try to move them out of the way, but not having too would be nice.
 
So no one knows how far the balancer goes onto the crank???????????
 
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