4 Pinion vs. Cone Type Sure Grip

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QWK FSH

QWK FSH

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I learned something new today (I'm sure everyone else here alreay knew this) I learned there are two types of Sure Grip units. To bad I didn't know this 2 weeks ago before I bought a unit. I purchased an 8.75, 489 case, large pinion or yoke, 3.23. As it turns out it has a cone type with clutch pack sure grip set up. Then I find out they have a 4 pinion type.

What are the advantages/disadvantages of each. Would you say one far out weighs the other.

I was told the cone type one wheel will likely spin more or farther than the other.

I was told by another person that with the 4 pinion, when turning tight one wheel will chirp or a gear will jump or something?

My set up:

'68 'Cuda
727
3.23
mild 440

All around street driven
once or twice a year 1/4 mile car
burn out's when the time is right
 
The 4-pinion is a Spicer Powr-Lok, while the cone type is made by Auburn Gear. The Powr-Lok is rebuildable, stronger and more expensive.
 
For straight street driving I'd stick with the cone type, IMO it's a little smoother when turning corners, especially in parking lots and the Power Lok will take more abuse. As far as longivity differences between the 2 types I couldn't say.

Terry
 
I like the clutch style (Dana) because it`s rebuildable. If you can`t find an original ,I think there`s a new clutch style being produced by Yukon. I`ve heard of the cone style being remachined but by and large they are not practically rebuildable. Your cone style should be fine though.
 
I have a Dana clutch type power-lok in mine and even after a fresh rebuild it doesn't grab or bind on turns. The only time I've seen a power-lok do that is when no limited slip additive was installed.

Like mentioned above the cone type isn't rebuildable and usually by 75,000 miles from what I've seen it's shot. The clutch type is rebuildable and stronger because it has 4 pinions where-as the cone type only has 2 pinions.
 
I just noticed you said your cone type has a clutch type sure grip. That's not correct. There's the cone type where the cones provide the means of locking the wheels providing a sure-grip then there's the Dana power-lok that has clutch plates that prodive the means of locking the wheels.
 
fishy68 said:
I just noticed you said your cone type has a clutch type sure grip. That's not correct. There's the cone type where the cones provide the means of locking the wheels providing a sure-grip then there's the Dana power-lok that has clutch plates that prodive the means of locking the wheels.
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I was thinking the same thing Fishy but thought it was a typeO. QWK here is an article that shows both the cone type and clutch type which one is yours. http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/axle/13.html

Terry
 
Why does everything have to be complicated? I don't want to instal this cone type if it's on it's last leg or won't give me 2 tire burn outs.

I guess I'll pull mine out and see what type it is before I make any decissions on what to do here.
 
I know one thing... I had a Auburn (cone type) carrier installed in my truck and it lasted about a 1 1/2 yrs and broke! Couldn't fix it... installed the orginal peg leg back in. $$$$wasted.. I'm still pissed as you can tell.

Cone type, clutch type, power lock type is all I've ever heard about. The power lock makes noise when the car turns.
 
mullinax95 said:
The power lock makes noise when the car turns.
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Not so. Mine doesn't make a lick of noise on turns and I just rebuilt it so it's as tight as possible. That's a bunch of hogwash. No offense Mully.:-D My guess is your just going by hearsay.

The only ones that made much noise on turns are the detroit locker type. A Power Trax is basically that same design so it is noisy too.
 
QWK FSH said:
Why does everything have to be complicated? I don't want to instal this cone type if it's on it's last leg or won't give me 2 tire burn outs.

I guess I'll pull mine out and see what type it is before I make any decissions on what to do here.
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High Performance can be compllicated. Sorry if it's bad news but we're just trying to give you the truth so you won't have to tear it down twice.

Talk about complicated, try restoring a 68 Cuda that had half the parts removed from. I spent 4 yrs. rounding up all the parts.
 
I,ve had cones and clutches,can get pretty expensive.Just purchased a sure slip from a member here ,turned out to be junk.So be careful,just bought brand new Aubern.Installer guarantees it.Good Luck!I know it,s hard,but try to stay away from used.They may be selling for a reason.No offense to seller.
 
I'm having a guy look at it. He put about 180 lbs of torque on it to test the locker piece and it didn't move so I think it's a tight unit.
 
A friend an I had this conversation yrs ago we put my cone type in his 440 super bee an his clutch type in my 340 duster both with 430 gear set up .a few good weekends at the track he could not break mine an i could not break his . I still use the same cone type diff in the dart that i had back then only change the gear to 391 some 30 odd yrs later. never been apart other than gear change
 
fishy68 said:
Not so. Mine doesn't make a lick of noise on turns and I just rebuilt it so it's as tight as possible. That's a bunch of hogwash. No offense Mully.:-D My guess is your just going by hearsay.

The only ones that made much noise on turns are the detroit locker type. A Power Trax is basically that same design so it is noisy too.
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I thought Power trax and detriot locker type are power lock type? That's what I was trying to say anyhow. So there are 4 different types?
 
No, Detroit Locker and Power Trax work differently. The Powr-Lok and Auburn units that Mopar used are a limited slip differential. They use friction (clutches) to keep one shaft from spinning faster than the other shaft. A Powr-Lok is basically an open differential so long as both axle shafts are turning the same speed. Now, as the shafts begin to turn at different speeds, the cross shaft rides up the ramps and applies the clutches. The bigger the difference in speed, the harder the clutches apply.

Detroit Lockers and the like are ratcheting lockers. They have no spider gears an keep the shafts locked together unless one overruns the carrier. This only happens in a turn where the outside tire travels farther (and therefore faster) than the carrier and the inside tire. That is why a Detroit locker will go chink-chink-chink in a sharp turn. Great for traction, but annoying on the street. Detroit Lockers are oriented more towards off pavement use.
 
C130 Chief said:
No, Detroit Locker and Power Trax work differently.
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The Power-Trax unit I was refering to is an aftermarket unit that you remove the spider gears on an open diffenterial and install in their place and according to their description it's a ratcheting mechanism that locks up just like a detroit locker. I was looking into installing one in my 02 Dakota because it's an open but their description described it as working like a detroit locker so I nixed the idea.
 
mullinax95 said:
I thought Power trax and detriot locker type are power lock type? That's what I was trying to say anyhow. So there are 4 different types?
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I think there's a difference of terms here confusing things. I do believe from everything I've read the Power-trax and detroit locker work the same but the factory power lock is a limited slip differential as Cheif described.
 
fishy68 said:
I think there's a difference of terms here confusing things. I do believe from everything I've read the Power-trax and detroit locker work the same but the factory power lock is a limited slip differential as Cheif described.
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Thanks Chief and fishy for the info... I'm going to crawl back under my rock now. lol
 
mullinax95 said:
Thanks Chief and fishy for the info... I'm going to crawl back under my rock now. lol
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No biggie Mully. LOL. I've been into mopars for 28 yrs. and until last summer when I went through my Cuda's differential and my Dakotas diff I didn't know all the types either.
 
The original CONE TYPE mopar used was made by BORG WARNER , it's a piss poor design at best . The new Auburn units are a little different than the old cone types and I haven't heard anything good about them, and they can't be half assed into working again like the old cone units .

The cone type SELF DESTRUCTS everytime you take a coner , the cones are the wear item and it's just GRINDING itself into nothing till the cones bottom out and it becomes a one wheel wonder. I bought one that one of the spiders had siezed on the pinion shaft , spun the shaft breaking it's locating dowel and it destroyed the case , total junk at that point . the metal particles get inside of everything and they damage the gears and the bearings .

If you must use one it would be a good idea to epoxy a couple of magnets inside the housing , below the oil level and away from moving parts , then change your oil on a regular basis to get the metal chips out .
 
If you must use one it would be a good idea to epoxy a couple of magnets inside the housing , below the oil level and away from moving parts , then change your oil on a regular basis to get the metal chips out

Good advice John about the magnets, I to am not trusting of the cone type for the metal on metal wear design.

As a matter of fact wasn't there a GMC cone type diff built that when the cones wore into the case far enough a C clip that was used on the end of the axle gained enough clearance that it would fall out and the axle would head for the ditch?

Terry
 
demon seed said:
If you must use one it would be a good idea to epoxy a couple of magnets inside the housing , below the oil level and away from moving parts , then change your oil on a regular basis to get the metal chips out

Good advice John about the magnets, I to am not trusting of the cone type for the metal on metal wear design.

As a matter of fact wasn't there a GMC cone type diff built that when the cones wore into the case far enough a C clip that was used on the end of the axle gained enough clearance that it would fall out and the axle would head for the ditch?

Terry
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I have no clue on that GM cone , but it sounds like a bigger piece of **** than the BW cone mopar used .
 
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