4 point harnesses,factory belts?

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69dodgedart360

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I have nothing but a lap belt in my dart and recently got close enough to an accident in another car with lap belts that scared the **** out of me. Scared me enough to the point where im thinking about buying the retractable shoulder belts from XVMotorsports. But if i bought the 4 point harnesses from Corbeau which i think they bolt to the floor would i be ok in an accident? meaning will my spine be crushed? The Reason im saying this is i have been told that the belt has to be slightly above or below your shoulder in order for it to be mounted properly and help you in an accident instead of holding you firmly in your seat and messing up your back for life. any ideas? what is everyone else doing for seat belts?

Thanks
P.S. these are the 4 point harnesses
http://corbeau.com/products/2_inch_belts/2_inch.shtml
would these work?
http://corbeau.com/products/2_inch_belts/2_inch.shtml
These are from XV
http://www.xvmotorsports.com/products/detail/index.cfm?nPID=113&cid=40&cdesc=A%2DBody Products
 
My barracuda is a cruise-in ride and really driven so the factory lap belts were restored. I plan to give the car to my grand daughter so i've already bought 3 points retractables off ebay to go in it before she takes the wheel.
The holes for the loops are there , hidden behind the head linner. I'd still like to add latches to the bucket seat backs as well. Good luck.
 
I run 4 point belts in my cuda with high back bucket seats, which keep the belts slightly raised over my shoulders and it is a comfortable and secure feeling and should provide adequate safety but if you have low back seats then you need to attach them further back to the floor to maintain the proper angle on your shoulders
 
You do not ever want to mount shoulder harnesses to the floor only. It has to have some attachment point at the shoulders. Without the upper attachment point the harnesses will not hold you up as your body moves forward.


Chuck
 
I have the high-back racing style seats and plan on using the Corbeau 3 points with the retractor. The retractors would mount at a rear seat belt mounting point, putting the angle of the shoulder harnesses at 45 degrees or less - which is supposed to be within safe limits. Their instructions cover this.

3point.jpg


retractor.jpg
 
I have the high-back racing style seats and plan on using the Corbeau 3 points with the retractor. The retractors would mount at a rear seat belt mounting point, putting the angle of the shoulder harnesses at 45 degrees or less - which is supposed to be within safe limits. Their instructions cover this.
Click to expand...

I have been looking at these also. I wondered if anyone else has installed these. I primarily only have myself and a front passenger. Occasionally I imagine I might have rear seat passengers too. I wish I could have my cake and eat it too...

Any ideas?
 
I'm going to install the rear belts too. The retractor won't poke between the seat cushions right where a passenger would be sitting - but off to one side or the other. Not ideal or the most comfortable, but I don't think it will preclude the addition of passengers.
 
The key word is "supposed" to be safe. If the belts aren't going to be attached to the roof like stock or somewhere near shoulder height there is no point installing them. They will not work and could cause more injury.


Chuck
 
340mopar said:
The key word is "supposed" to be safe. If the belts aren't going to be attached to the roof like stock or somewhere near shoulder height there is no point installing them. They will not work and could cause more injury.


Chuck
Click to expand...

Should shoulder belts of the 4 or more point type be mounted to the roll bar if you have one? Does someone make hardware for this? What is the NHRA stance on seatbelt mounting?
 
The NHRA rule book states the shoulder harness be mount to the roll bar at shoulder height or no more than 3" below shoulder height.


Chuck
 
Excellent information Chuck.

IMHO, if I build my vehicle to NHRA specs I should be safe whether on the street or track. Would anyone disagree with the above statement and if you do, please say why. This is dead serious stuff.
 
Just a note of caution,those 3 and 4 point racing harnesses ARE'NT legal on the street..they're for the track only...
 
340srule brings up a good point. Racing harness do not have a DOT rating.

Also if you put racing harnesses in your car you have to change them every two years if you want to race the car.


Chuck
 
340srule said:
Just a note of caution,those 3 and 4 point racing harnesses ARE'NT legal on the street..they're for the track only...
Click to expand...

I believe that you are correct as I have not seen a racing a harness that was DOT approved, but they are SFI rated and dated. I would imagine that it may be a problem in states where inspections are mandatory, but I don't know for sure as I am not in an inspection mandatory state.

Edit: Chuck is right about seatbelt replacement every two years. SCCA also has helmet and window net date rules too. This may apply to NHRA rules as well.
 
Perhaps these aftermarket belts address the DOT issue:

"1. Are the Schroth Rallye line of harness belts really street legal AND how can I prove it?
Located on the plastic ASM mechanism on the inboard shoulder belt of each harness, you will see the letters/numbers "FMVSS 209". The DOT created this Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) 209 and Schroth has certified that the Schroth Rallye belts meet or exceed that standard, and therefore are street legal."

http://www.soloracer.com/harnschrothfaq.html
 
How about this option?

Corbeau 2-inch 3-point (black to match my interior) with these options: 1) retractor, 2) double release, 3) snap-in.

Rear attach point - weld or bolt in additional metal (angle or square tubing) to the body-width brace at the top of the rear seat back/package tray. Do this inside the trunk area. Then mount an eye-bolt centerline behind the front passenger seats. This eye-bolt would be at shoulder level. On second thought, may want to off set it slightly towards the c-pillar (see rear passenger whip lash below).

Normal 2 front passenger operation...both have 3-point retractable with two shoulder harnesses at shoulder level (minimized spine compression upon impact) plus have a retractable shoulder harnesses.


So with rear passengers (and more safety conscious defensive driving), un-hook the rear snap-in, release the double-release (rear) and stow the retractor. Front seat occupants can use the 3-point as a 2-point lap belt and lay the excess 2-shoulder harnesses to the side, down low...maybe towards the trans tunnel. Cruise with all of your passengers in Mopar bliss. The offset rear eye-bolt attachments would moved far enough to the side to not interfere with your rear passenger's necks (would be a bummer for whip-lash into the eye-bolt).

After dumping them off, re-hook everything up and you are back in business with full safety configuration. Kind of complicated...but may be a better choice for those early a-bodies that never were configured for a roof mounted shoulder belt.

I would rather have two shoulder belts anyways for normal spirited driving (especially with my early "vlad the impailor" non-collapsible steering column)

There are no inspections here in California and although my car had the optional lap belts, I think this would be safer. I realize that to be safest, don't even drive or at least only in a fully air-bagged modern vehicle. But since I'm committed (or should be "committed" to the mopar funny farm) to driving my old car as a daily driver, I'm looking for any cost-effective advantage safety advantage.

Tell me if you think this is do-able technically and if you think it would be easy to live with. Remember, I mostly drive alone or with a single front passenger.


link to product page:http://corbeau.com/products/2_inch_belts/2_inch.shtml

corbeau_retractable_option.JPG


corbeau_snap_in_option.JPG


corbeau_double_release_option.JPG
 
I found a nice write up on a install of the corbeau 2" harness. Well written with lots of pictures.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-Harnesses/

Corbeau 2-inch 3-point (black to match my interior) with these options: 1) retractor, 2) double release, 3) snap-in.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if you can get all three options in one belt. Wouldn't hurt to ask....
 
I'm going to preface this by saying I feel having proper safety equipment, properly installed, needs to be taken very seriously. Also understand that I am not arguing anything that anyone has said.

If you build your car to meet NHRA specs will you be safe (or safer) whether on or off the track? Sure - on a more probable than not basis. Can someone be "too safe"? Probably not, though I'm sure it could be taken to unecessary extremes.

In the end I think a person needs to consider the application and intended use of the vehicle. Not everyone will be drag racing or racing where NHRA or other rules are applicable. Not everyone has a roll cage installed in their car. In some rare cases it would not be advisable to use the factory mounting point behind your left ear.

There must be practical alternatives that meet or exceed federal safety standards and the law, and I think they're out there. And, FWIW, I'm now reconsidering my use of Corbeau products in my car.

As to whether socal should weld in a crossmember behind the rear seat as a mounting point: Consider what would happen if it were to fail in a collision and result in injury or death. Tried and true solutions are best considered.
 
As to whether socal should weld in a crossmember behind the rear seat as a mounting point: Consider what would happen if it were to fail in a collision and result in injury or death. Tried and true solutions are best considered.
Click to expand...

70Duster440 - Hah...it's like you already know me.... I often get TOO complicated when dreaming up an idea. This is one of those times. I rely on my pals to bring me down to earth for a more practical solution. Thankfully you helped let a little air out of my crazy idea balloon http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif
:-D

I looked again at the install from the link I posted. The author had the Corbeau mounting instructions (http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-Harnesses/DCP_6153.JPG)

It might be entirely practical with 111" wheelbase to mount to "D" or "E" rear seatbelt anchors and stay within the 45 degree limit, especially since I usually have a fair amount of front seat recline.

I'll have to measure the angle when I get my seats back in. I imagine that a passenger could sit back there also.
 
socal_65dartgt said:
It might be entirely practical with 111" wheelbase to mount to "D" or "E" rear seatbelt anchors and stay within the 45 degree limit, especially since I usually have a fair amount of front seat recline.
Click to expand...

I have to say I have also seen warnings that rear mount angles should not exceed 5 degrees down from shoulder height or 30 degrees above ( http://www.gforce.com/pdf/harnessinstall.pdf ). Race organizations have specific rules but beyond that there's a fair amount of conflicting information out there.
 
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