426 numbers, vs. hemi tribute

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Daz570

Daz570

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I was just wondering what true hemi cars are out there, and what dollar they command of recent, (my prefferences are 67 - 69 cuda or E body but don't let this be a benchmark)

VS,

a complete tribute/clone car, what can be had for what price? and why you would/wouldn't have one in your shed...


or 3rd, . . .

would you just find something nice yourself, and biff whatever you wanted in it? :D

Dan..
 
I think peoples opinions of clone/tribute cars have changed over the years. When the prices exploded and the cars became out of reach for most people, clone started popping up all over. It was a case of a "few bad apple spoiled the bunch", some people tried to pass them off as real cars to cash in and in most cases did, which gave all clones cars a bad rap. With hemi more parts available now, more people are building them and they are now more accectable. I've had real hemicars and transplanted hemicars...with the transplanted hemis I am more relaxed. I can drive them without fear of damaging them. Original hemicars will always be worth more than clone cars, in the market today E bodys will bring more than B bodys for the most part. If I ever own another hemi, it will be a 69 Charger R/T and oh yeah...it will be a clone.
 
The hemi wow factor is nothing like it used to be,with everyone building hemi clones and sticking crate hemis in everything...i'm more impressed with a numbers matching 340 any day of the week...
 
Recently 68 SS/A cars are bringing 100 to 150 w/o engine & trans, however these are up to date class SS/AH or AA, and have full cages, tubbed wells, high hp engines to the tune of 30 to 40,000 a pop, and usually a 9", 4 link, totally different from a original 68, 69 or even 70's original car. A complete original 68 brings way over 150. But your talking Full race only car.
I have seen Tribute's (68) sell for 70 and 80, but were asking 100, and this is recent in our depressed economy. As I am building a Tribute 68 SS by the book, as close as possible, but also for the street, I have seen a few copies and they all vary in options and equipment features, I have yet to see one copied exactly as delivered to the dealer. So once again personel preference will delegate the money spent. I am not finished, but the WOW factor and high eyebrows & thumbs up, are STILL making impressions. Yes, a hemi in anything is not so impressive, but I think if you build a tribute, recreation, or clone, close enough to say, original or ?, then the nice job is enough reward, as well as the investment, of course only in my opinion. :)
 
NO WAY!
Another fellow aus!

Whats going on mate!!!?

What vj is that!? An whats in it?
I got one too :D
 
I only like clones if they are done RIGHT.Take for example a 1969 Coronet 500 and someone clones it into a Super Bee.And it still has a 318,904,wrong tail lights and grille.If your going to clone it do it right.
As long as your not going to try and pass it off as the real thing when you sell it.And you don't make a clone out of a rare car to start with.Such as a 1969 Coronet 500 383 HP 4 peed car.
Do NOT even get me started on General Lee cars.Sometimes I just want to punch a Guy out.I have turned down selling my Road Runner twice to Guys who wanted to clone it into a Superbird.Sorry go find a Satellite or maybe a rusty Road Runner to start with.Sometimes I just want to punch people sorry.
I understand the common man can hardly afford a 68-72 Road Runner or 67-69 GTS or any of the real Mopar muscle cars anymore.Prices are crazy still even with the economy bad.Clones and less rarer Mopars have been hit the hardest by the economy.The rarer Mopars that are in nice shape are still out of reach for most.
Jim
 
but what about the guy who does not build a "clone" or "tribute"? he just wants to have a hemi in a dart? i have never been a fan of "clones" or "tributes". but the guy who just wants a hemi with a stick in a dart, no matter what year, to me is ok. to some the "wow" factor of a hemi in a dart or what have you might not be a big deal, but how many of them have you really seen?? :toothy10:
 
Personally I don't see the attraction to "numbers matching" or cloning a car to make it like just like it left the factory. I certainly won't pay a premium for it. Even if I was to come into possession of a correct "numbers matching" car I can't imagine it staying that way for long.

My interest in the hobby is the ability build something that looks old but performs like a new car. Lets face, it compared to today's standards all of our cars don't stop, handle, ride, provide a comfortable place to spend a couple of hours and the straight line performance is mediocre at best.
 
Hang tight; even a non-clone will be worth more money than Barret-
There aren't that many left, and they stopped making them years ago.
Damn, old parts are hard to find.
 
I'm on my third clone/tribute/whatever Hemi Dart and no matter what you call 'em they're just easier to do & cheaper than re-doing an original RIGHT. Now let's be honest.
Assuming you're starting with a good ( not great) Dart 270 & a stock crate Hemi, doing all the work yourself & dealing on parts, you're going to have about 25k into the car. There's NO WAY you're gonna get an original Hemi anything for that money PLUS there simply isn't that much "technology" in a Hemi Dart to justify the huge price tag many ask. It's stripped, has cheap seats, a TF trans (50-75$ core), some 'glass parts, AND THAT"S IT! Yes, you're time IS worth something but if you're building the car FOR YOURSELF there really is no labor charge, so that argument is irrelevant. Guys selling these for 50,75 or even 100k are either lucky or criminals, depending on your point of view. Now my present project will be a bit more as my motor isn't stock so that naturally adds to the price.
The point I'm trying to make, is that these cars are far easier & cheaper to build than many think & simply aren't worth the outragous prices some are asking.
 
I respect the numbers cars. I've had a couple back when it wasn't a big deal, and kept them so they could be put back.
My current project is a 74 Dart Sport. I like the body style and it's going to be a 70-71 Duster with a 408-4spd. It's got liittle rust and is pretty straight, has manual steering and clutch linkage, (It was a 198 3-on-the-tree.) Pure hot rod, just fun.
 
The problem with a high dollar "numbers matching" car is they are never enjoyed, or used the way they were intended.Let the super rich have their status symbols. Build what you like and have fun! I'm putting a hemi in my Diplomat, you think anyone will believe its original??
 
dla4567 said:
The problem with a high dollar "numbers matching" car is they are never enjoyed, or used the way they were intended.Let the super rich have their status symbols. Build what you like and have fun! I'm putting a hemi in my Diplomat, you think anyone will believe its original??
Click to expand...

I DO!!!!!!!!:cheers:
 
I wish people would stop using the term "tribute" . It is a ridiculous term invented by a certain auction company to boost up the prices of fake cars they sell on TV every January because the terms "fake", "bogus", and "clone" were unsavory sounding.
 
dla4567 said:
The problem with a high dollar "numbers matching" car is they are never enjoyed, or used the way they were intended.Let the super rich have their status symbols. Build what you like and have fun! I'm putting a hemi in my Diplomat, you think anyone will believe its original??
Click to expand...

You couldnt be more WRONG. Depends on who owns these numbers matching cars. And as for the "or never used the way they were intended..." Well, lets just say the punk in the mustang last year learned to keep his mouth shut ;)

As many of you know, my dad bought his 1969 hemi roadrunner new. It's a numbers watching hemi car with a 4 speed. Engine was blueprinted by the famous ramchargers speed shop as well. Now to say it isnt enjoyed is just stupid. Our car is by no means a show car... look at the underneith and the only thing that isnt dirty is probably the exhaust that was replaced a couple years back. Even the paint is about 18 years old now! Our car is driven, and the only reason it isnt driven more is because of the price of gas and parts. We only have 40,000 original miles on that car but are driving it to lancaster at the end of the month for a nostalgia meet. That's about a 2.5 hour drive and we dont mind it. Our car is NOT a trailor car or anything that we need to have as a status symbol.

Some guys ask us what its worth... and we simply tell him, "It's all in who wants to buy it." We don't make up numbers or try to act like we know... we're just honest. We don't look down on clones, but when we say its a real hemi car people are all over it. It gets a lot of attention at shows... and is known in my town by people we havent even met. Our roadrunner is the only one in the area (orinigal numbers matching hemi car).

We love it to death... but we drive it, we love it... and the only thing we wont do is race it because if we break something now we're screwed and wouldn't be able to afford to fix it.

And heres a pic that was taken just a couple weeks back at a cruise.... enjoy.

100_1290.jpg


100_1289.jpg


And an olderER pic...

Car2.jpg
 
Well some of us run the rare ones like they were meant to be.I had a 1969 1/2 Road Runner M code car.I blew up the transmission first and then blew the engine all with in one summer.I had the car well past 120 mph many many times.I ran this car very very hard my buddys could not believe it.I told them thats what it was built for and after all its just a car.
Although my current 70 Road Runner is not rare it is unrestored and all numbers matching.I have had it past I20 mph many times and 135 mph once.I have spun the ties in it a few times.But I don't run it as hard as the 69 1/2 mostly because it just don't run like the 69 1/2 or I would.
As far as my GTS it is 1 of 991 built.And after the engine is broken in I plan on run it as hard as the 69 1/2 I had.It is far from stock and a former drag car.My brother has a T/A Challenger and shifts it at 5000 RPM.I tell him come on WTF I turn my 383 6800 all day long.He said he doesn't want to blow it up. I just say Come on Please I used to turn my 318 Dart so hard it would not rev anymore and never blew it.
But Yes there are more Guys that baby these cars than there are Guys like me that run them like they were built to run.
Jim
 
Nice Roadrunner your dad has, hemizach. If i had that car, i would drive it just like you guys do. Is it a 4 speed or an auto? I would 1/4 mile it at least once to see what it would do though.....there's nothing saying that it has to be revved to the moon or be hard on it, i wouldn't be able to resist finding out what it would do! :-D
I belive in driving them and isn't that what they were intended for?
My brother had a 440 superbird in the mid '80s that we top ended once to the tune of 150 mph or so, we wouldn't do that again on the stock bias ply tires! Boy was that stupid!
I say build 'em, drive 'em clone 'em or whatever makes you happy. Just make them safe.
My 2 cents.
 
I tried to somewhat respond to the questions asked by the guy who started this, I can no way afford a original SS car, doubt if there are any box stock ones left anyway, cannot afford to race a current SS/AH car even If I had one,
I have always loved the 70 hemi cuda, I preferred the 68 fastback as a car to build, I wanted a healthy hemi, 4 speed, dana, and hemi scoop, so if I'm going to do all that, and can afford to buy most of the parts to copy a SS car, why not ?
So my build really is a Tribute to the 68 SS car, I used to drag race Stock class,
and yes it's only a copy, clone, and I would never even think about passing it off as a real one, as all plates, titles, etc, are not available anyway, and I just would not cheat anybody just the same,
there is a car on here for sale, beautiful 68 built hemi car, not a clone, ad says, if plymouth would have built verson,,,I fell as though I saved a 68 from the grave yard, if nothing else, and all that was offered in 68 I would own was a 383, and I would not be totally satisfied with that, sooooo, my Hotrod 68 Fastback will due !:thumrigh: so how many of you would not have a Hemi in whatever, if YOU could afford it !
 
hemicop said:
....The point I'm trying to make, is that these cars are far easier & cheaper to build than many think & simply aren't worth the outragous prices some are asking.
Click to expand...

I disagree they are not that easy to do RIGHT. It all depends on what corners you cut and how much you pay attention to detail. That goes with about any car though.

I do agree they would be easier than a 66/67 Hemi Charger or 69 Hemi GTX convertible. They don't have much trim and just less parts to them. But with an SS clone you have to do some fabrication. The stock cars bolt back together more or less.

Properly detailing the suspension to a /6 Lancer, S/S Hemi clone, or 71 Hemi Cuda convertible is roughly the same.

I've been watching my friend built his S/S Dart clone.

How about the hours fitting and constructing one of Greg's 68 SS K-member kits? Aligning the centerline of the crank with the rear end. Properly cutting out the wheel wells (Dart). How about the custom headers or poor fitting off the shelf stuff....

That header situation will soon change.

There are very few original 68 SS cars that have "as delivered" top notch restos.
 
Tribute SS/A 68 said:
I totally agree, not any easier, and not much cheeeper ! If any !
Click to expand...

I do think it's easiER in many ways. But I wouldn't call it "easy". You need more fabrication skills for a SS clone.


My buddy that is doing the 68 hemi dart clone just got done doing a top level concours OE type Challenger T/A resto. This Dart clone will be easier, less time consuming and less costly. Sure there are some more costly parts on a Dart, but there are just less of them since it's a Dart and it was a stripper one at that.

He's also saving money by making his own parts like the hemi pan and heater/radio dash delete plate, heater motor delete. They look awesome, very hard to tell from original.
 
OKay, let's start with the essential: Hemi, TF (more TF were built than 4-spds), 'glass pieces & rear. Now the Hemi (including x-ram) will set you back 16k minimum, the TF (rebuilt by yourself )350 or so, the rear (8 3/4 stock) 2-500 bucks ( I sold 1 for 200 out of desperation), 'glass pieces $1000-1500. The S/S springs? There's enough guys around that aren't happy with them that you could find them used if you had to.
The K-member can be modified for the price of labor (again, remember I posted you're doing most of the work yourself FOR yourself) so that' 0$. Since you're starting off with a Dart270 you already have the door panels & dash, so nothing special there unless there missing, and remember I said a DECENT (aka) Dart, nothing perfect so they're at least there. You can clean-up re-dye the doorpanels so thet's almost nothing. But wait! What about the "famous (?) radio/heater delte plate that everyone thinks makes it "official"? Well since you have a complete dash, you can send that plate out to a shop I know of that will convert it for $200 bucks. The outside mirror delete plate is rare, but I have my own source for them, so they are obtainable. Now you have the A-100 seats. These were basically fixed-back truck seats as we know & the frame of these things were the same throughout their manufactur. So all you REALLY need is a frame set & aa good upholsterer, unless you use the set from Legendary Auto (which offers discounts to FABO members and you're all set. The lightweight seat brackets? Three hole-saws, a good brake & 40dollars in sheetmetal will get you a set instead of the $350 or so some vendors charge. The rear divider that replaces the backseat? Go to an big upholstery supply place & get "speaker board"-- they have it in sizes large enough for this application
The rear quarter cut-outs? Find a friendly, genorous owner of a car with them & make a template yourself. I was lucky enough to fond such an individual & he sent me a paper template I transferred to sheetmetal (for durability) and there you go! Yup, it's work but not rocket science or grossly expensive.
Okay, so I've accounted for the driveline, 'glass, stripped interior, suspension & body mods. What did I miss that seems so hard to do one "right"?
 
the one thing i actually found missing in this thread is the fact that the S/S cars were delivered in such a state that modification of them was expected and planned for. IMO the appeal of these cars is their history and what they stand for. They were race cars and 99% of peoples memories of them are as race cars. as-delivered they were an incomplete canvas with several pieces of the puzzle missing. I would rather see a "tribute" to a famous race car than a white/primer as-delivered LO23 any day. Its just more interesting that way. And putting them back to the way they left the assembly line pretty much erases all the history that the car made/saw over the years. The character goes away and then it just becomes another expensive piece of machinery keeping the garage floor from flying up into the atmosphere.
-tim
 
Dartnut said:
Nice Roadrunner your dad has, hemizach. If i had that car, i would drive it just like you guys do. Is it a 4 speed or an auto? I would 1/4 mile it at least once to see what it would do though.....there's nothing saying that it has to be revved to the moon or be hard on it, i wouldn't be able to resist finding out what it would do! :-D
I belive in driving them and isn't that what they were intended for?
My brother had a 440 superbird in the mid '80s that we top ended once to the tune of 150 mph or so, we wouldn't do that again on the stock bias ply tires! Boy was that stupid!
I say build 'em, drive 'em clone 'em or whatever makes you happy. Just make them safe.
My 2 cents.
Click to expand...

Yes, the car is a 4 speed. We still have fun with it :-D
 
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