438/451 Lowdeck Dyno

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Challenger340

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I posted this on another thread...
thought I would put it up here, more as an example to stress the IMPORTANCE of PORTING,
when it comes to the Eddy or Stealth Heads ?

just my opinion here,
but really, NOBODY should expect REAL power from OOTB Eddy's or Stealths, by just bolting them on ??
If you are inclined to go that OOTB route, by all means fill Ur boots !
just saying....
they respond REALLY WELL to some porting work, well worth the Money spent !

OK, here's the first one we did back in 2007, hit 10's in Edmonton(still is today) on 91 Octane, and caused all the ruckus and more phonecalls, where we had to do a bunch more for the Calgary/Edmonton crowd... our closest market.
It was, and is, still a very nice pump gas package.
We do a 426/438 version as well for the Guys using 383 Blocks, very close to the same power, just slightly higher rpm.
More of these running around Calgary Ab., our closest market giving Chebby owners FITS !

\It uses a stock 440 forged Crank... we do NOT grind the counterweights down... preferring to "windage" them instead for smoother rpm's Any dork with an Angle Grinder can do the same at home in 2 hours, and they fit JUST FINE that way in the lowdeck Blocks.(I'll post a Crank pic if anybody wants)
Mains ARE reground down to the 400 size ... that's it... thats all !
* CompCams XS282S Solid Flat Fappet
* 1.6 Ratio Rockers
* port matched 383 Torker Intake

The Eddy Heads are treated to our Stage 2 Porting & Prep/ Flow test we do here in Fernie B.C.
Which,
depending upon your geographical location can be repeated elsewhere... Jim Leroy "IQ82" on here comes to mind, he could easily do the same 300 cfm head as WE DO HERE, that I am sure of !
451EddySolidwithSingleplane001.jpg
 
Excellent. Thank You. Nearly identical build to mine w/ 300cfm edelbrock heads as well. Same intake but with 1.5 rockers, small roller (.555) & a 1000cfm "prepped" 4150 carb. Comp ratio is identical as well.

Those numbers are certainly encouraging as I finish my build.
 
80fbody said:
Excellent. Thank You. Nearly identical build to mine w/ 300cfm edelbrock heads as well. Same intake but with 1.5 rockers, small roller (.555) & a 1000cfm "prepped" 4150 carb. Comp ratio is identical as well.

Those numbers are certainly encouraging as I finish my build.
Click to expand...

You Sir, I am certain, will be very pleased with your results !! :goodman:
 
Awesome, thanks for specs. U should post a pic of the crank, I as well as others would be interested. I'm also working on a similar build. I will say that member Fisher made some impressive power with O OTB eddy heads on a 426.
 
Wow for me the most impressive part is the 500+ft/lbs,from 3600 rpm to almost 6000 rpm! Very useable tq and h.p sir...
 
baracus said:
Awesome, thanks for specs. U should post a pic of the crank, I as well as others would be interested. I'm also working on a similar build. I will say that member Fisher made some impressive power with O OTB eddy heads on a 426.
Click to expand...

I will find and post some Pics of the angle grinder "windage" Crank Prep for less parasitic power loss,
as opposed to actually "machining" the counterweights which merely makes the Crank "Fit" the Block with no gain.
2 birds with 1 stone..... FIT it.... AND Gain power.

The size of "compressor" underneath in my experience, merely determines basically "where" the peak power events will occur for a given Cylinder Head Flow.... not how much power ? That is determined by the HEAD.

No offense to Fisher intended, he has a very FINE Engine.... but IMO, his 505HP with 540 Lbs Torque should be seen as pretty much "normal", utilizing un-ported Edelbrock Heads ?
GREAT GAINS can be had..... even on a 426 inch "Compressor" when the Eddy's are Ported, with a Flat Tappet Cam ??
 
Its all relative i guess? all in what you want to do. I see i am making 515 tq at 2900 and your made 511 at 3600. All you really did was move the curve up. you are making a bit more hp, but i am just under 10.0-1 compression too. Cam specs will be dofferent etc. I am running a dual plane yours is a single plane. Both make good power for the intended use i suppose. My engine builder said there was more to be had in the heads, but didnt feel it was worth the time and cost at this time. Small intake runner, has good air speed and velocity. keep the torque going.
 
Fisher said:
Its all relative i guess? all in what you want to do. I see i am making 515 tq at 2900 and your made 511 at 3600. All you really did was move the curve up. you are making a bit more hp, but i am just under 10.0-1 compression too. Cam specs will be dofferent etc. I am running a dual plane yours is a single plane. Both make good power for the intended use i suppose. My engine builder said there was more to be had in the heads, but didnt feel it was worth the time and cost at this time. Small intake runner, has good air speed and velocity. keep the torque going.
Click to expand...

You have a VERY FINE Engine there Fisher !
I certainly meant no dis-respect by referring to the power output as "normal" earlier, for UN-Ported Eddy Heads in that application ??
Nonetheless,
the numbers pretty much..... ARE "normal" from what we see here with UN-Ported Heads on the Dyno.

My only intent was to show the advantages of "PORTING" on ANY application ?
You should be happy.... you have POWER left "in the Bank" for later if/when you ever decide to "Port" your Heads !
I apologize,
I should NOT have posted a B based lowdeck, I did not realize you might have interpreted it as a "troll" on your build, if that is the case ? certainly unintended.

Again... and maybe a better non-comparison that won't offend, here is a
"Budget" 440 Engine.
It nonetheless, still emphasizes the advantages to some Port-work.
440 Block
Stock LY Rods W/ARP Bolts
ICON Pistons
regular 5/64" Rings(non 1/16")
Hydraulic Flat Tappet Cam @ .510" Lift
"Street Ported" Stealth Heads
Dual Plane Eddy rpm Intake

545 HP @ 5500 rpm
564 Ft/Lbs TRQ @ 4500 rpm
and this one was still above 560 Ft/lbs down @ 3,000 rpm as well.


IMG_0001_zpsc5485342.jpg
 
Oh no i am not offfended. lol. There are many ways to acheive something, lots of ideas out there. For instance, my motor didnt want anymore than 19 initial and 32 total timing. It didnt like a carb spacer either. I had a goal in mind of 500-525 hp on pump gas that had good street manors. we achieved that.
 
Did you find any pics of your RB crank mods for low deck use? I have a spare 400 block and '66 440 crank in my stash and considering a 451 or 470 build.
 
IMO the 451/eddy head combo would have improved with the 1 7/8 headers. Were any smaller primary headers tried?

Is the second dyno results it says 440 BBD, so a standard RB 440?
 
I would LOVE to see a pic of that crank I`m building a 431. My machinist told me to do what you did but I was worried I would mess up my crank. I`m feeling a little better about it now
 
I believe that knife edging the crank throws is worthwhile.Scares me a bit that I'll take off too much or from the wrong area though...
 
OK, here is a couple of photos of the Stock 440 Forged Crank Counterweight prep for use in the Lowdeck 400 Blocks.

I get a kick out of the "451 manifesto" posted here and elsewhere on the Web ?
Don't get me wrong here...
I think it's GREAT that the info is written and saved for posterity... I really do !
But,
and just that from my perspective...
we were building "451" Engines back in the early 80's this way.... with LY Rods...
and using Custom Venolia's , even before the first "off the shelf" ARIAS S7751Pistons became available ?
and,
This is the way we still do them today, albeit very rarely.... due to the prevalence of Big Strokers, HEMI's, and general time constraints vrs "money".
Nostalgia being what it is... not even a good way to use up worn out hemi Cranks anymore, or so it seems ?
Still requires very minor Block Radiusing where the main web attachs to the cylinder case... done with a 1/2" Carbide Ball, then some equally simple Block clearancing at either end on the flat of the cases, but about 3 hrs Total time Crank & Block.
The stock 1053 Cranks are so much easier on the #4 Main.... compared to the aftermarket 4340 stuff.

You don't need to do chamfer both sides of each Counterweight if you don't want to.... just the sides that would interfere with the main web ....
The one "pretty one" here was just for fun...
The one with the ruler so you can get some dimension ideas.
451004.jpg


100_13981.jpg


451008.jpg
 
451Cuda said:
IMO the 451/eddy head combo would have improved with the 1 7/8 headers. Were any smaller primary headers tried?

Is the second dyno results it says 440 BBD, so a standard RB 440?
Click to expand...

1 7/8" Header on a 451 in my experience is always a few hp better than the Dyno 2 1/8" EGT Headers.


Yes,
the 2 nd Sheet is just a pretty run of the mill RB 440 Build, "Prepped' stock ly rods, Icon Pistons, Ported Stealths with the CompCams XE284 on 1.5 Rockers @ .510" lift.
 
Interesting info. Good to know the 17/8 B body hedmans I bought will work in my favour!
 
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