440 oil level

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Princess Valiant

Princess Valiant

A.K.A. Rainy Day Auto
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i was told a awhile back by an old timer 60's mechanic ....actually my old transmissions instructor when i was in auto school that:

a 440 should be run with a extra quart of oil above the dipstick full line.

the reason according to him is that at higher operating RPMs (above 3500-4000) the higher volume of oil that is circulating in the top end makes a significant shortage on the bottom.

he went on to say thats the reason so many of these engines had spun bearings and were put out of service early on.

And we are talking about totally stock engines here.

i have taken this advice for a few years now with no problems on a totally stock 70 440, i have good reason to believe this man......However, i am always a skeptic

What do you guys thinks: OLD timer MYTH ....or is he on to something?
 
,.................With stock engines i never did but performance and race i still do with stock type pans........deep pans fill to full...........kim.......
 
i just read in my FSM if they are ran above the fill line the oil will foam up and lose its viscosity. dont know how true that is
 
73AbodEE said:
i just read in my FSM if they are ran above the fill line the oil will foam up and lose its viscosity. dont know how true that is
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thats interesting ...the only time i ever seem oil foam up is with water in it .......but ya never know.

now you got me thinkin
 
since the crank is set down quite far in a bb running 1 qt over full should not hurt .and also the pan is far from full when the engine is running.so if your revving the engine i would take his advice.
 
73AbodEE said:
i just read in my FSM if they are ran above the fill line the oil will foam up and lose its viscosity. dont know how true that is
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I have heard this too. Actually, I have been told by a few knowledgable sources that some Mopar engines should be run a quart or 1/2 qt low....can't remember why but I think it has to do with the oil windage. Maybe this is more for race cars? In my 340 I run a deep Moroso pan and was told to not fill it to the line, there is plenty of oil in the engine and the sump is deep and has plenty of oil to suck up.
 
RaniDart70 said:
what weight?
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Can't remember, but it was a few different engines, not mine. I have been told to never over fill engines with oil so I figured maybe this was the cause. I had a friend pour too much in his engine and he had this happen and he didn't know why, checked his oil and it was too high.
 
My head builder put restrictors in the oil passages in the heads to keep from over oiling the top end. He said that at high rpms you get too much oil at top, so you might be on to something Rani. I'd be worried about windage though.
 
Something i haven't seen mentioned is, especially at higher rpm's with a overfill, the increased windage starts to flood the bottom of the cylinders with oil and then your asking a awful lot from your oil scrapers.
 
Stock 440 heads dont drain back very well @ high RPM as the oil is forced to the back of the head under acceleration, it gets trapped up there. There is a fix for it by taping a hole in the back of the head and putting a fitting then hose ran down to the back of the block, theres two holes in the block already with plugs in them.
 
I think in general you don't want to overfill oil. That said, it may have been a practical sollution to make sure you get solid oil to the oil pickup. High performance big blocks came with windage trays and baffled, front and rear, oil pans. I was once told that the windage from the crank will push oil in the pan to the sides enough to uncover the oil pickup on high RPM engines.
 
As to Rani's question, talking bone stock engines........I just can't see a stock pump draining a stock pan except "maybe" in a long sustained high rpm run. The shaft oiling system is fairly self limiting as to top end oiling compared to some other brands...... As far as bearing issues, most come from inadequate pressure, improper clearance and even detonation. Or a combination of the above......Now in a performance application, well that's a whole different story.....jmo.
 
I say no way. You'll never suck the pan dry and overfilling will just beat the oil up. Ive heard that you actually only "need" 4 qts. The 5th is a precaution for production cars so they would still be fine if the masses were to run to the add 1qt line. Also heard of "some" stock class drags cars only running 4qts back in the day. I would stiil stay at the full line however.
 
The "1 qt over" ina big block means nothing. If it's got a tray in it the oil won;t get caught around the crank. Drainback is an issue with big and small blocks - I add drain holes in the valley and also enlarge/deburr what's there. It is possible to suck the pan dry - especially if you have the HV oil pump and like to race on the highway and don;t have any additional drains, but it takes a lot to do it and there's much more "myth" about it than reality. Keep it full to the line on anythign but a full race vehicle. A full race car can run less depending on the oil system. I know Stock Eliminator cars that run 3qts. At the end of the run the oil pan is basically empty so no windage. There is a lot of power in oil control.
 
It's much better to improve your drainback than overfill the crankcase. Easy fix like was mentioned with the plugged holes in the back of the head. Also helps to smooth out the passages with a die grinder if you see any rough areas or mismatched casting lines.
 
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