440 power gains/ aluminum head advantages?

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NoahSewal said:
i agree i should've degreed the cam when i did it. stupid move not doing it for sure. i believe cranking compression is different than cranking psi, but my cranking psi is 160psi every cylinder within 5psi of eachother. this is the pistons .010 in the hole and a .040 head gasket with open chamber heads. im not sure if thats low for my setup or not.
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Cranking compression and "cranking psi" are the same thing. You're looking for the cylinder we pressure the engine makes while cranking. A late intake valve closing (like an excessively retarded cam install) will show up as lower cranking compression values.

160 psi seems a bit low to me but let's see what others on here think. I'm thinking something more in the 175-180-ish range might be correct. But let's let others chime in.

Don't beat yourself up about not measuring the cam centerline/degreeing the cam when you installed it. Live and learn!! But I still think I would take the time to do it now.

440's are great engines and should put a smile on your face in that light Dart! Small blocks can also perform very well but a bug block should be sure to please. Need to figure out if the cam is installed correctly (and was it machined correctly) by degreeing it. If incorrect, all your tuning efforts will be wasted.
 
Not degreeing a cam is a huge mistake a lot of guys make. You can never assume it's going to be even close. If you put a lower cost timing chain in they will stretch and you'll lose 2-3 degrees within a 100 miles. You don't have to pull the heads to degree a cam, but that's the first place I would start.

Tom
 
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PROSTOCKTOM said:
Not degreeing a cam is a huge mistake a lot of guys make. You can never assume it's going to be even close. If you put a lower cost timing chain in they will stretch and you'll lose 2-3 degrees within a 100 miles. You don't have to pull the heads to degree a cam, but that the first place I would start.

Tom

Tom
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You got that right, not to mention the sprockets being machined poorly with the keyways in the wrong places. Add that to the cheap chain stretching and you can really stack the lack of tolerances up! I've seen a timing set come up almost 12 degrees retarded on a big block Chevy and that was with a NEW Cloyes double row set. Imagine what that would have been like once it got running with a stretched chain. Yet I've had some of these guys scoff at me when I recommend a 100 buck timing set.
 
You have a light car, big engine, 4.56 gears & a 3500 rpm c'ter.
It should be doing somersaults......
There is a fundamental problem, & I doubt degreeing the cam is going to 'fix' it. But should be checked.
I suspect a more fundamental problem such as wiped lobes, valves not sealing etc.
 
Disclaimer: I’m no professional tuner by any stretch of the imagination. However, with a big block, 4.56 gears, 10.5” slicks, and Cal-tracks, a 2.0 60’ and 80mph 1/8 tells me it’s either spinning or just falling flat on its face. Curious mind wants to know.
 
Addressing the 2.0 60’ time……
Did anyone happen to video the runs?
I’m asking if it can be confirmed it’s not spinning.
If it’s dead hooking, and the converter flashes anywhere close to 3500…….. a 2.0 is really bad for that basic combo of parts.

As for the timing……
Everyone has their own way of doing things, and that’s fine.
Personally, I’d have no problems running the timing locked out, as long as it’s not pinging and it doesn’t create any hot start problems.
Has anyone confirmed the timing mark is correct?

The 160 psi sounds about right to me.

Does the “3500” converter actually stall close to that?

Tell us about the heads…….
What are they and what’s been done to them?

If you can’t find anything fairly obvious, I guess making sure the cam is at least “close” to where it should be is a logical step.
I’ve seen and heard of people finding strange goings on under the timing cover(gears mismarked, etc).

Exactly what is the cam?(brand, specs, etc).
 
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For reference:
68 Satellite, all steel, 3600lb race weight
4.10’s with 10.5 x 29.5 slicks
Old SS springs, 11” factory high stall from a lil red
Re-ringed 68 440 with Crower 271 HDP cam
Original Torker, 780vs carb
Napa store rebuilt 346 heads, upgraded springs, zero porting
1-3/4 x 3 headers, open exhaust

Best of 12.12@112, mid-1.70’s in the 60’(theoretically 7.70’s in the 1/8).
Shift at 5000, out that back at close to 5500

On the street with bias ply L60-15’s it would fry the tires effortlessly.
 
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NoahSewal said:
i have it locked at 36 now. runs a lot better than it did before. just seems under powered from like 2.5k rpm up. especially in 3rd with the most resistance against the engine
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My low compression engine died in high gear too, laid over at 5000. Higher compression will make any mopar fly. My 383 had 12.5, 426 Max had 12.5, 499 had 15.4, they all were fast! The 383 ran 7.05 with same heads cam intake and carb as 440 that ran 7.6 with better vert and both had 4.88 gears good slicks, maybe 200 pounds heavier in the 64. The 440 was the only one that wouldn’t rev past 5000, the others went over 7000. Compression!
 
Pontiac Lemans 3950 lb without driver, first drag race experience. 455, Hi Port alum heads, headers, factory RA4 intake [ dual plane ], 236/230 @ 050 hyd roller cam [ note less exh duration ], 3.31 axle, T400, street tyres, not a Holley but a Chrys 850 TQ prepared by me, 11.78 @ 115.
 
Sorry,
The et/speed I quoted in post #37 is incorrect. Will try & find the correct #s.
 
Carnut68 said:
Do you have wide open throttle? What have done with the fuel system?
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Fuel system, what I was going to ask next, thought of it last night. Hope at the least a Holly blue or carter with a minimum 3/8” line.
 
PRH said:
Addressing the 2.0 60’ time……
Did anyone happen to video the runs?
I’m asking if it can be confirmed it’s not spinning.
If it’s dead hooking, and the converter flashes anywhere close to 3500…….. a 2.0 is really bad for that basic combo of parts.

As for the timing……
Everyone has their own way of doing things, and that’s fine.
Personally, I’d have no problems running the timing locked out, as long as it’s not pinging and it doesn’t create any hot start problems.
Has anyone confirmed the timing mark is correct?

The 160 psi sounds about right to me.

Does the “3500” converter actually stall close to that?

Tell us about the heads…….
What are they and what’s been done to them?

If you can’t find anything fairly obvious, I guess making sure the cam is at least “close” to where it should be is a logical step.
I’ve seen and heard of people finding strange goings on under the timing cover(gears mismarked, etc).

Exactly what is the cam?(brand, specs, etc).
Click to expand...
i've got a video i'll have to look for it again but it was not spinning. my converter that run flashed to around 2,800rpm. the heads are mismatched one a 906 head and another is a later head. both similar combustion chamber size. nothing done to them besides new seats and valves. the cam is an isky .505 mega race cam hydraulic flat tappet. i agree 2.0 is very slow with my combo and ive chased my tail looking
for an answer. i'm thinking about just pulling the front end apart and checking cam degree, as well as pulling the intake and making sure i've still got cam lobes ha. it hates anything but being locked out. even if i only get it to advance 6 degrees. it's been one of the harder engines to get to run right that i've messed with for sure
 
Like I said, the dist locked out isn’t problem to me.
If it runs good like that, just leave it.
That’s not you’re missing 1.5 seconds of ET.

If your flash stall is only 2800, that’s way shy of what would be optimum with a 505/292 mega cam(you’re sure it’s the 505?).
That’s a pretty good sized cam and I’d consider a typical 10”(35-3800)converter to be the minimum I’d want for that.

I assume the heads have the correct springs, and they’re set up at the correct heights for the cam?

As another reference point……
The Isky 505/292 cam is very similar to a Racer Brown SSH-44.
I ran an SSH-44 in one of my 440 combos into the low-11’s………with a 9” converter that flashed 48-4900.
 
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Bewy said:
Pontiac Lemans 3950 lb without driver, first drag race experience. 455, Hi Port alum heads, headers, factory RA4 intake [ dual plane ], 236/230 @ 050 hyd roller cam [ note less exh duration ], 3.31 axle, T400, street tyres, not a Holley but a Chrys 850 TQ prepared by me, 11.78 @ 115.
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What’s this have to do about this post???
 
PRH said:
Like I said, the dist locked out isn’t problem to me.
If it runs good like that, just leave it.
That’s not you’re missing 1.5 seconds of ET.

If your flash stall is only 2800, that’s way shy of what would be optimum with a 505/292 mega cam(you’re sure it’s the 505?).
That’s a pretty good sized cam and I’d consider a typical 10”(35-3800)converter to be the minimum I’d want for that.

I assume the heads have the correct springs, and they’re set up at the correct heights for the cam?

As another reference point……
The Isky 505/292 cam is very similar to a Racer Brown SSH-44.
I ran an SSH-44 in one of my 440 combos into the low-11’s………with a 9” converter that flashed 48-4900.
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yes sure that's the cam. bought that one after cam break in failed with a comp cams and i had rebuild the whole engine again ha. and yes i can check next time i drive it but it's definitely around 3,000 flash when i launch it. it's a tci 3500 stall converter. wouldn't have been my first choice but i got it for 150 bucks and it's been good to me besides a little lower flash than i expected. i know my new timing chain had quite a bit of slop when i installed it all but didnt think much of it. im wondering if its retarding the cam too much with how much slop it has.
 
Myself and others have brought up the cam timing issue and i'm still leaning that way.

Way back when i was in my teens and still learning, i did several ''dot to dot'' installs and not all, but most left something on the table. And yes, those all never hit the different converters as they should have.
 
Carnut68 said:
Do you have wide open throttle? What have done with the fuel system?
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I would sure double check this if you haven't already.

And I assume that 800 Holley is a double pumper? I don't think they make a vacuum secondary in that size, but if it is a vacuum secondary carb, the secondaries won't open all the way if the secondary spring is too heavy.

Just thinking maybe you should check the simple stuff first.
 
If it does turn out to be suspect cam timing and it's retarded, when you correct that, your converter will likely flash higher. I previously noted my 440 Charger in this thread. Like you said you have, mine is also an old TCI 10" converter - the "Street Fighter" they called it. Mine flashed to 3200 rpm so you might get there too (or higher). It was good enough for 12.50's shifting at 6200 rpm with that old 292/.509 purple cam. And that with a 750 vacuum Holley.

There's no reason yours can't do that or better - keep digging! You'll find it soon.
 
The answer to post #43 is smart people look at what the other guy is doing; maybe they will pick up some ideas that will improve their performance.....
 
I had another thought…….
If the OP has a friend with something like a “known good” 850dp carb he could borrow and bolt on, that might be worth a try.
It’s basically just a tool/process to rule out any possible issues with the OP’s current carb.

I feel like there has to be some component that’s way off.
It seems unbelievable you could have that combo of parts run that far below expectations without there being a real “problem” with……….something.

To say it another way…….
IMO, the sub-par performance isn’t the result of how good or bad that exact combination of parts works together.
The poor performance is the result of there being something wrong with how at least one of the items in the combo is working/functioning.
 
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