440RB INDY DUEL PLANE OR RPM INTAKE HELP

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ebodydownunder

ebodydownunder

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Hi
Im building a 440 with the new trickflow heads and was not sure if the indy duel plane has benefits over the edelbrock rpm air gap in standard port window configuration.
Has anybody done a back to back on an engine with good cylinder heads to see the true limits of each intake. Im thinking the indy may have more plenum which will help the trickflow heads get the air they will want.
Id appreciate your input
Thanks
 
Buy from anyone but Indy , there products and support are useless
 
Y do u want to choke it off with a dual plane? Is this total street. Indy is alittle better but not worth the dollars to buy if u already have the rpm. What is ur build
 
oldkimmer said:
Y do u want to choke it off with a dual plane? Is this total street. Indy is alittle better but not worth the dollars to buy if u already have the rpm. What is ur build
Click to expand...
Gday
Yeh its total street, under hood deal.
Its stock stroke 440
Trickflow heads
Im using a 236/242 comp solid roller on a 112 lobe sep.( had it under the bench)
I would like to run a hyd roller but ive never seen one rpm beyond 5800 without it getting unstable in the lifter. And this combo will go 5800 to 6000 rpm and the thought of the lifters smashing themselves deters me.
Using the same pipes i had from a stroker build, 2" 4 into 1 mandrel 3" exhaust
10.6.1 comp
Ive run the indy duel plane with great results but it came from jeff at modern ported and max wedged and that stroker made 685hp just was not sure in stock port form the difference.
 
ebodydownunder said:
Gday
Yeh its total street, under hood deal.
Its stock stroke 440
Trickflow heads
Im using a 236/242 comp solid roller on a 112 lobe sep.( had it under the bench)
I would like to run a hyd roller but ive never seen one rpm beyond 5800 without it getting unstable in the lifter. And this combo will go 5800 to 6000 rpm and the thought of the lifters smashing themselves deters me.
Using the same pipes i had from a stroker build, 2" 4 into 1 mandrel 3" exhaust
10.6.1 comp
Ive run the indy duel plane with great results but it came from jeff at modern ported and max wedged and that stroker made 685hp just was not sure in stock port form the difference.
Click to expand...

I pretty sure you could get by just fine with the Edelbrock RPM intake for your purpose.

This is a very similar 440 set up to the one you plan to run. Trick Flow heads, 9.9:1 compression, almost the exact cam, the Edelbrock RPM intake and an 850 Mighty Demon carburetor.

RPM..............TQ/HP

3000.........495/283
3200.........515/314
3400.........546/354
3600.........550/377
3800.........555/401
4000.........558/425
4200.........553/442
4400.........552/462
4600.........553/484
4800.........558/510
5000.........552/526
5200.........556/550
5400.........546/561
5600.........532/568
5700.........530/575
5800.........517/571
5900.........508/570
6000.........497/568

No tuning, made a couple of pulls and put the Six Pack on..........567 LB-FT and 591 HP
 
I'd use the Performer RPM right out of the box. Should work just fine with that cam.
 
AndyF said:
I'd use the Performer RPM right out of the box. Should work just fine with that cam.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the advice.
One other question: I need to get a set of lifters. Crower hipos still the way to go for solid street rollers. Anybody have a part number to order from summit.
Also i use rollmaster chain sets with iwis chain, if i were to buy something in the usa what do you guys use?
Thanks
 
For timing chains the Rollmaster is excellent.

The least expensive I would run is this Summit set. The cam gear is a little soft and requires a lot of clean up to remove the proud metal on the edges of the cam gear teeth.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g6606-b/overview/make/dodge
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g6606-b/overview/make/dodge

Never found a Rollmaster with a roller thrust bearing. I like a roller thrust bearing with the roller cam so I use this Cloyes unit. Has all hardened teeth and no metal shards on the teeth to clean up.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/clo-9-3625tx9/overview/make/dodge
 
ebodydownunder said:
Thanks for the advice.
One other question: I need to get a set of lifters. Crower hipos still the way to go for solid street rollers. Anybody have a part number to order from summit.
Also i use rollmaster chain sets with iwis chain, if i were to buy something in the usa what do you guys use?
Thanks
Click to expand...
I'd use Comp AMC lifters since they provide pressure oil to the roller as well as pushrod oiling if you want. More money but perhaps a higher quality lifter would be the Crane. Morel makes good solid roller lifters also but you have to search for a dealer. Hughes might carry Morels not sure.
 
AndyF said:
I'd use Comp AMC lifters since they provide pressure oil to the roller as well as pushrod oiling if you want. More money but perhaps a higher quality lifter would be the Crane. Morel makes good solid roller lifters also but you have to search for a dealer. Hughes might carry Morels not sure.
Click to expand...
Hi Andy
What are your thoughts on the 112 lsa , what would you have chosen for a mild build 100% street car.I have a 11 inch converter that went 3200rpm with a 493 and 3.5 ratio diff and 28" tyres.
I wanted to keep it tuff and tame and i dont have hp goals with this build.
I just didnt want a stock 440
 
Hi Guys
I have just striped the 440 short to start machine work and have found the crank to be stuffed.
Im going to put a 4.150" stroke Molnar with chev journal and molnar 6.76" rods.
Would you still use the edelbrock rpm.
Comp is going to be 10.2.1 with this combo with a little head shave using 23.7cc icon pistons.
What rpm would you expect this to tap out at with the trickflows and baby solid roller with 1.6 rockers ? Im thinking 5800rpm
 
There are no benefits to single plane for your service requirements even with that size of engine unless you wish to reduce the amount of torque you have at lower rpms. I've done dyno tests on this size engine with the RPM manifold and the Victor single plane. With the gasket matched RPM manifold vs the gasket matched Victor you will gain as much as 40 LB-FT at lower rpm's and lose maybe 15 HP at 6,000 rpm.
 
IQ52 said:
There are no benefits to single plane for your service requirements even with that size of engine unless you wish to reduce the amount of torque you have at lower rpms. I've done dyno tests on this size engine with the RPM manifold and the Victor single plane. With the gasket matched RPM manifold vs the gasket matched Victor you will gain as much as 40 LB-FT at lower rpm's and lose maybe 15 HP at 6,000 rpm.
Click to expand...
Hi Thanks for your input.
I build a few engines and dyno every say 12 weeks i am on a dyno, but im the only person around where i am that does Chrysler big blocks.
I did a low deck 2 months agao with an rpm intake and heads,470 cubes and a 236/242 hyd roller that the lifters tapped out at 5800rpm and made 580hp/600 lb/ft @10.7.1 on 98 octane BP fuel.
This sat i am dyno tuning the 493 with 248/254 solid roller,indy ez max wedge, 11.1.1 comp and indy single plane with 950 carb that im shooting for 700hp.
I was considering the holley stealth on the stroker with the trickflows and small solid, if i experimented with this i may want to try asingle plane.
2 questions
Is the mopar M1 as low as the edelbrock RPM to fit under bonnet so i could try it with efi.
And second question does this efi stuff really work?
I had a indy duel plane that fit uner the bonnet before has anybody got the heights for these 3 intakes??
Thanks
 
I don't have the 440 M1 single plane to measure. The carburetor pad height on the 2D Indy is 5.25" and the pad height is slanted on the RPM, 4.90" front, 5.80" back and 5.35" in the middle. The Indy is a really good manifold and is more designed for a Max Wedge port.

I would really like to see you get your 700hp, but the cam may be a little small for the rpm's necessary.

Yes the EFI stuff works. We've made equal to or a little less horsepower with the EFI. Certainly not enough difference to even worry about.
 
IQ52 said:
I don't have the 440 M1 single plane to measure. The carburetor pad height on the 2D Indy is 5.25" and the pad height is slanted on the RPM, 4.90" front, 5.80" back and 5.35" in the middle. The Indy is a really good manifold and is more designed for a Max Wedge port.

I would really like to see you get your 700hp, but the cam may be a little small for the rpm's necessary.

Yes the EFI stuff works. We've made equal to or a little less horsepower with the EFI. Certainly not enough difference to even worry about.
Click to expand...
Hi IQ52

This engine has made 685@6400 with the 2D
Now its got a better valve job and a single plane.
When i dyno tuned it with the 2D i did not chase.
I bed the rings in, checked valve clearances did 3 pulls and i was off the pump.
Im pretty confident it will tip over 700
Thanks
 
IQ52 said:
I don't have the 440 M1 single plane to measure. The carburetor pad height on the 2D Indy is 5.25" and the pad height is slanted on the RPM, 4.90" front, 5.80" back and 5.35" in the middle. The Indy is a really good manifold and is more designed for a Max Wedge port.

I would really like to see you get your 700hp, but the cam may be a little small for the rpm's necessary.

Yes the EFI stuff works. We've made equal to or a little less horsepower with the EFI. Certainly not enough difference to even worry about.
Click to expand...
I have been reccomended to use the holley stealth 550-440 .
I was told you can tweak it by turning up fuel pressure if engine make 600 to
IQ52 said:
I don't have the 440 M1 single plane to measure. The carburetor pad height on the 2D Indy is 5.25" and the pad height is slanted on the RPM, 4.90" front, 5.80" back and 5.35" in the middle. The Indy is a really good manifold and is more designed for a Max Wedge port.

I would really like to see you get your 700hp, but the cam may be a little small for the rpm's necessary.

Yes the EFI stuff works. We've made equal to or a little less horsepower with the EFI. Certainly not enough difference to even worry about.
Click to expand...
 
IQ52 said:
I don't have the 440 M1 single plane to measure. The carburetor pad height on the 2D Indy is 5.25" and the pad height is slanted on the RPM, 4.90" front, 5.80" back and 5.35" in the middle. The Indy is a really good manifold and is more designed for a Max Wedge port.

I would really like to see you get your 700hp, but the cam may be a little small for the rpm's necessary.

Yes the EFI stuff works. We've made equal to or a little less horsepower with the EFI. Certainly not enough difference to even worry about.
Click to expand...
Also i have been reccomended to use the holley stealth system.
Im sure the engine im going to use it on will go tad over 600hp but a holley dealer tells me it will work just fine. he tells me you can turn up the fuel pressure and it will compensate. But its limits are 650hp. What have you played with and have you got any comments on this
 
ebodydownunder said:
Also i have been reccomended to use the holley stealth system.
Im sure the engine im going to use it on will go tad over 600hp but a holley dealer tells me it will work just fine. he tells me you can turn up the fuel pressure and it will compensate. But its limits are 650hp. What have you played with and have you got any comments on this
Click to expand...

It looks like you are on the right track for 700hp with the 493 then.

We used the 550-406 Terminator system on a pump gas 383 Chevy. The 550-440 Stealth just looks more like a carburetor, hence "Stealth". Easy to use. The engine made 531hp with an 850cfm carburetor and 518hp @ 43 psi fuel pressure with the fuel injection. I believe with more time for the system to learn the engine it would make more power. The owner only wanted 450hp so we didn't use up any more dyno time fiddling with it.
 
i left this open for a while without realising till i visited again.
Well i did the dyno session last year on the latest super flow and i fell short a bees dick 699.5hp @6500 and 650 lb/ft.
I am about to dyno my new engine now and i was looking to see if anyone built something similar to mine.
Now that I've gone to a 496 4.150 stroke i kinda regret that i didn't go hyd roller.
i had the 236/242 solid roller on 112lsa and crower lifters .
i have the trick flow heads and had the ports just smoothed of the cnc marks.
I am using the sniper efi and gone the M1.
Im having the intake professionally ported and welded up to match the trick flow ports perfectly.
guy comes out on site and measures it all up assembled on short before and after welding as he has to skim intake.
Im not sure what to expect with the rpm .
Will this engine see 5700rpm?
I think it may roll over somewhere between 5500 and 5700.
I switched out the valve springs as they were to hard.
I have set the springs installed 185lb and with my 1.6 rocker it has around .605" and 465lb open.
Just waiting for the heads and intake to come back in the next week or 2.
 
More info on the current build
4.125 stroke
4.360 bore
auto tech forged 18cc dish piston custom order(icons were out of stock at time of my order)
molnar crank bbc 2" big ends
molnar 6.76" rods
No clearance work at all.
No clearancing required, closest point was at oil pick up .085 clearance
2" 4 into 1 pipes.
holley sniper efi
compressions at 10.45.1
I have seen some 440 cubers turning 5900rpm with same cam with possibly more spring than I'm using.
What do you engine tuners think this will turn to?
 
I`m not an expert, but the indy dual plane is bigger inside the runners from what I understand, but has terrible core shift, and may even need to be epoxied or welded up to fit right. Still think I`d use a single plane w/ fuel inj. . Loosing a little torque down low makes them very streetable, mine is, and its bigger and hotter in every area than the one u duno`d. A bout the same comp. ratio tho.
 
ebodydownunder said:
Hi Andy
What are your thoughts on the 112 lsa , what would you have chosen for a mild build 100% street car.I have a 11 inch converter that went 3200rpm with a 493 and 3.5 ratio diff and 28" tyres.
I wanted to keep it tuff and tame and i dont have hp goals with this build.
I just didnt want a stock 440
Click to expand...

I run a 112 in mine with a 10" 3500 vert, 4.56 gears and a 28" tire. I've also run the same combo with a 9.5" vert, 28's and a 3.91 gear. I love it for street strip use. Real street friendly and works at the strip too. It will go 11's with ease.
 
TO the OP, I've run both of those intakes. The RPM is far superior. Muscle motors I believe did testing on both and the indy one has major flow issues. I sw this test years after I used the first one. It gave me some tuning assaches and it left power on the table.

The RPm isn't restrictive either. It works well and I would go with one all day over anything but a vitor, which isn't needed in many cases.
 
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