"451 Manifesto"

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I think assembling a "stock" 440 mopar, to "stock" specifications, with all parts clean, is a piece of cake and should be done quite in-expensively as in the aforementioned $450 ??
But IMO,
that should not be confused, with having professional level Engine built, especially with aftermarket parts, or "assembled" conduscive with the targeted higher output application for those type of prices ?

Things happen in this World for time, and money, and if wish anyone any good with extensive knowledge and experience in many areas....that costs pure & simple ?
to explain;
* File-Fitting the Rings correctly and the tools therein(pretty easy)
* Checking & setting the Rod side Clearance in pairs, and the tooling therein, remember here the only way the Bearings cool is through the flow of Oil on not only the vertical bearing clearance....but Oil OUT for more cooling with increased rpm, pressures and engine output like strokers.
Verifying correct Vertical bearing clearance....NO...NOT plasti-gauge...arrrgggh !
* "setting" Crank endthrust....auto hi-stall ? NO...you don't just drop it in ??
* Correcting the rear main Oil Seal offset....common problem with BB mopars encountered 80% of the time.
* pin-fitting in both the piston & the Rod....NO...the aftermarket Pistons ootb are not sufficient...never are in fact...nor are the Rods...pin End-play in the Piston....NO they are NOT alright ootb.
* Cam degreeíng....and changes therein on both #1 and split the difference to the running mate #6...a problem on BB Mopars.
* Doing correct valvetrain geometry....and making pushrods up from scratch to correct the many pitfalls with aftermarket heads & valvetrains....NO, they do not just "line-up" and work.
* Oil system priming...Shortblock...then to the Long block....and avalanche tests BEFORE continuing on each.

this could go on and on.....
A lot of the above stuff many never even knew SHOULD be checked ??
my point being....
many guys actually still believe ?? they can just go buy a bunch of aftermarket parts...from many different suppliers because they want a Stroker or whatever ?? "stack" a bunch of tolerances from the different manu's ?? and just screw it together like a 'stock' Engine ??
then wonder why later.....it don't DO what it was "apposed ta"????? or worse BLOWS UP ?
 
Challenger340 said:
I think assembling a "stock" 440 mopar, to "stock" specifications, with all parts clean, is a piece of cake and should be done quite in-expensively as in the aforementioned $450 ??
But IMO,
that should not be confused, with having professional level Engine built, especially with aftermarket parts, or "assembled" conduscive with the targeted higher output application for those type of prices ?

Things happen in this World for time, and money, and if wish anyone any good with extensive knowledge and experience in many areas....that costs pure & simple ?
to explain;
* File-Fitting the Rings correctly and the tools therein(pretty easy)
* Checking & setting the Rod side Clearance in pairs, and the tooling therein, remember here the only way the Bearings cool is through the flow of Oil on not only the vertical bearing clearance....but Oil OUT for more cooling with increased rpm, pressures and engine output like strokers.
Verifying correct Vertical bearing clearance....NO...NOT plasti-gauge...arrrgggh !
* "setting" Crank endthrust....auto hi-stall ? NO...you don't just drop it in ??
* Correcting the rear main Oil Seal offset....common problem with BB mopars encountered 80% of the time.
* pin-fitting in both the piston & the Rod....NO...the aftermarket Pistons ootb are not sufficient...never are in fact...nor are the Rods...pin End-play in the Piston....NO they are NOT alright ootb.
* Cam degreeíng....and changes therein on both #1 and split the difference to the running mate #6...a problem on BB Mopars.
* Doing correct valvetrain geometry....and making pushrods up from scratch to correct the many pitfalls with aftermarket heads & valvetrains....NO, they do not just "line-up" and work.
* Oil system priming...Shortblock...then to the Long block....and avalanche tests BEFORE continuing on each.

this could go on and on.....
A lot of the above stuff many never even knew SHOULD be checked ??
my point being....
many guys actually still believe ?? they can just go buy a bunch of aftermarket parts...from many different suppliers because they want a Stroker or whatever ?? "stack" a bunch of tolerances from the different manu's ?? and just screw it together like a 'stock' Engine ??
then wonder why later.....it don't DO what it was "apposed ta"????? or worse BLOWS UP ?
Click to expand...

All very good points. I suggested he start with a stock/nearly stock engine as a first timer experience and get in the habit of checking everything very thoroughly for the reasons you listed.
 
moper said:
I disagree. Not that it's out of anyone's reach to assemble - but that it will save thousands. Most charges are parts and machining. If you're being charged four figures to assemble someone is too full of themselves. That being sais - if you haven't done a performance assembling job, and don't know how to measure, how to do the little bits that seperate "working" from "great", you are giving up some by doing it yourself. In some cases that can lead to more spending.
Click to expand...

Then I would, by this defination, be full of myself.
 
AndyF said:
The original article in on my website at www.arengineering.com

A lot of the information is dated but still useful in general. The Mopar big block book that I wrote a few years ago has a lot more information in it. I'd recommend getting a copy of the book before building a new engine. It is only $20 from Amazon.
Click to expand...

$20 is cheap knowledge. Alot cheaper then spending thousands on a new engine and having to spend hundreds or thousands to go back and correct mistakes.
 
I think Andies book is well worth it. I have in my collection.

Saving big $$ by assemling it yourself isn't really that cheap to do. The precise instruments needed dont come cheap. Unless you plastigage everything,lol...
 
I purchased Andys book a few years back. Somehow I misplaced it...

Was out in the garage working on the mower few days back, spent some time thinking...

What if....one were to build a 451/470. Set of gently massaged aluminum heads, not MW ports with a full CNC program on them. Just simple port matching, blend the bowls and some cc work done on them. Good valvetrain, hydraulic roller, one based more towards somewhat civil street manners, more bottom/mid range than top end. Perhaps use some of the different piston/bearing coatings. A TPI style EFI setup, one that allows full control over timing/fuel curves. Knowing that it can be tuned to add/pull timing/fuel based on load and throttle setting/vehicle velocity run the compression up a bit. Couple it with a somewhat modern electronic trans, my car is setup for a 4l80e.
More or less a "modern day" build...no real goal for hp/et...go into it with the thinking of it will run whatever et it is going to run...hell, perhaps with the thought process of just wanting a good running, drive able wedge powered street car?
Any and all thoughts/comments appreciated...
 
inkjunkie said:
I purchased Andys book a few years back. Somehow I misplaced it...

Was out in the garage working on the mower few days back, spent some time thinking...

What if....one were to build a 451/470. Set of gently massaged aluminum heads, not MW ports with a full CNC program on them. Just simple port matching, blend the bowls and some cc work done on them. Good valvetrain, hydraulic roller, one based more towards somewhat civil street manners, more bottom/mid range than top end. Perhaps use some of the different piston/bearing coatings. A TPI style EFI setup, one that allows full control over timing/fuel curves. Knowing that it can be tuned to add/pull timing/fuel based on load and throttle setting/vehicle velocity run the compression up a bit. Couple it with a somewhat modern electronic trans, my car is setup for a 4l80e.
More or less a "modern day" build...no real goal for hp/et...go into it with the thinking of it will run whatever et it is going to run...hell, perhaps with the thought process of just wanting a good running, drive able wedge powered street car?
Any and all thoughts/comments appreciated...
Click to expand...

^^^ What he said.
 
^ that's my plan for my duster. sort of. im already running a t56, not an electronic controlled auto. and I have an ez efi on the shelf for it. I want to do a 451 street build.
 
Guy's without a doubt doing a low deck stroker will be a kick in pants. I've done two cars, both later B bodies, one a auto and the other a 4 speed. Having driven a hemi car I can say the stoker low deck motor has gobs of torque. Both motors were 452 inch. I can't imagine one in an A-body, Scary
 
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