47 degrees initial time? help!!!

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MoparOrNokar

HammerTime
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Ok so i have my new engine in and running. 360 .04 over xe274 cam msd al6. Now that th engine is broke in i decided to check some timing numbers and see what works best. Hit it with the light and it says 47 at 1000 rpm and dizzy unhooked. I checked the balancer mark with a piston stop and it is dead nuts on. Gears and chain were put on spot on. Car fires right up hot or cold. Could it be somethi g with the msd messing me up?
 
Have you tried backing the timing down?
 
You mostly cannot check base-timing on MSD equipped cars with a dial-back timing lite.You need an old style lite, with: a calibrated balancer, or one of those stick-on tapes, or see "hillbilly timing tape sticky". Or go to the MSD website. I heard they have a compatible lite.
How to - Hillbilly Timing Tape
 
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My first thought would be to check your timing mark at TDC. (new balancer?)
I was also told that you had to use a super expensive adjustable timing light with the msd boxes. I just bought some timing tape and a msd timing light.
 
I did some research but only found one guy with the exact problem. He ended up have such a rich carb mix that it let the engine run with 40 degrees. I just find that hard to believe. I think the timing tape is my next move. With the tape do you use the zero mark on the block as the pointer?
 
MoparOrNokar said:
I did some research but only found one guy with the exact problem. He ended up have such a rich carb mix that it let the engine run with 40 degrees. I just find that hard to believe. I think the timing tape is my next move. With the tape do you use the zero mark on the block as the pointer?
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Yes, but did you VERIFY TDC when you assembled the engine? If not, you have no idea what your actual timing is but it damn sure better not be 47* total.

BTW, did you disconnect the vacuum advance hose?
 
yellow rose said:
Yes, but did you VERIFY TDC when you assembled the engine? If not, you have no idea what your actual timing is but it damn sure better not be 47* total.

BTW, did you disconnect the vacuum advance hose?
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Yes hose was unhooked. Engine was set at tdc at assembly. Its boggling my mind man. I just dint see how it could even run that far if it actually were 40 something degrees. It fires clean hot amd cold and runs smooth. I havent driven it yet so i dont know what its gonna do under load
 
At idle it loves timing
But 40 on your lite is a lie, and you proved it cuz it won't run on less than whatever it's got.
Just drive it, and keep twisting it til it pings a hair, the back it up.
Then order a proper lite.
Stay out of WOT til you get it dialed in proper.
 
AJ/FormS said:
Did you read post#1?
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Actually I did read it. I just missed it. I only verify TDC with the head off during assembly. I didn't see he used a stop through the plug hole. Not my favorite way to do it but it works.

I can't image 47* total at 1000 RPM and it is happy. I didn't run that on alcohol.
 
yellow rose said:
Actually I did read it. I just missed it. I only verify TDC with the head off during assembly. I didn't see he used a stop through the plug hole. Not my favorite way to do it but it works.

I can't image 47* total at 1000 RPM and it is happy. I didn't run that on alcohol.
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EDIT: dam read it again. He didn't say he used a stop through the plug hole. He just said he checked it.

Guess I better put the crank pipe down and the cliche's away for the day. WTH???
 
MoparOrNokar said:
Yes hose was unhooked. Engine was set at tdc at assembly. Its boggling my mind man. I just dint see how it could even run that far if it actually were 40 something degrees. It fires clean hot amd cold and runs smooth. I havent driven it yet so i dont know what its gonna do under load
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does dist have a advance curve in it?? I find mopar dists, have a long slot for weights to travel, which gives it a lot of total timing. I assume you have light springs inside dist? first off, recheck TDC with a piston stop.
 
So with an MSD ignition you need to use a quality timing light without an advance knob. I have both styles (Snap-on) and when I did my break in I originally started with my adjustable light. No dice, same problem as you. I figured something was wrong with the advance knob because I triple checked everything during assembly and before firing, so I switched to my standard light and got a reading of 12 degrees. Also, one thing I noticed is that with my adjustable light it was reading about 4 times higher at 49 degrees. I'm thinking if your reading 47 then your probably around 11 degrees or so. I ended up with 16 degrees at 800 rpm in the end. Anything more would cause my starter to kick back a little when the motor is warm to hot.
 
I would start from SCRATCH

1.....Get a plug piston stop and CHECK it. I made this one in the early SEVENTIES

stop2-jpg.1714540100


you don't need a degree wheel, just mark the balancer temporarily each direction it stops, then split the difference. TDC is halfway in between

2....IF YOU have MSD ignition, (or even if not) get an old NON dial back lamp to double check your own lamp

3...Make DAMN sure you are on No1. These ain't Fords..........
 
What distributor are you using? Betcha the two wires to the distributor are reversed.
 
My 70 Cuda did this once and it was a bad coil. Was running 42 initial to get it to run. A brand new Super Coil was bad.
 
IQ52 said:
What distributor are you using? Betcha the two wires to the distributor are reversed.
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if they were reversed it would run like crap if at all. He says it runs good until he backs the timing down.
 
Stock dizzy. Not sure on what guts are. Was goona set initial and see how much curve is in it. Im going to try hillbilly tape tonight And see how that readz
 
My Snap-On light does weird stuff sometimes and will come around if I turn the pick up on the wire around. Apparently the arrow isn't always right. Have you looked at your spark? How big a gap will it jump, color (blue or yellow) etc....
 
MoparOrNokar said:
Stock dizzy. Not sure on what guts are. Was goona set initial and see how much curve is in it. Im going to try hillbilly tape tonight And see how that readz
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I would keep in the back of my mind, reversed distributor leads. Please to not call it a "dizzy."

Google "rotor phasing"
 
So i just got home and double checked everything while i marked on a hillbilly timing tape. Again tdc mark was spot on. Popped the dist cap and the rotor is right on the number 1 plug wire. Unfortunately im on dad duty and cant fire the engine right now to try the no dial light. I also checked the dist wires and they are hooked up just as the msd instructions show. Ill keep you guys posted.
 
skep419 said:
My first thought would be to check your timing mark at TDC. (new balancer?)
I was also told that you had to use a super expensive adjustable timing light with the msd boxes. I just bought some timing tape and a msd timing light.
Click to expand...

So what am I missing on the msd timing tape? If I install it as shown here aren't all my timing marks ATDC instead of before where I want them? Am I overthinking it? I just finished my motor rebuild with a nice new cam and new intake and edelbrock 1406. I'm getting a smooth 12 BTDC at idle. I wanted to check total timing and don't have the fancier timing light, so bought these tapes.

http://www.jegs.com/InstallationInstructions/100/121/121-8985.pdf
 
Those dial back lights and msd make for some interesting results. I doubt it would start with a true 40* without some nasty kicking back. I use the cheapest, most simple light with msd. I wouldn't even worry about what the initial timing is. Set it to 35* at 3000 rpm, double check idle timing and forget it. Good luck!
 
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