470 Stroker - Anyone built one?

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PRO470

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Hey guys,

I've been lucky enough to find a '72 Dodge 400 big block, complete with pistons, crank, and 452 heads.

I've never played with Chrysler big blocks before (or ANY big blocks for that matter!). So, I'm going in to this blind. I'm also in Australia, so will be sourcing parts from the good ol' US of A.

Firstly, I'm going to be purchasing a 470 stroker kit from 440Source, however I've heard some not too great things about the pistons and rods that go with the kit. Does anyone have any experience with this particular product?

I'm thinking as well of some Eddy Performer heads, but I have absolutely no idea about manifolds/carbies/cams, although i do know that I want to go a hydraulic roller for easy maintenance. HP figure wanted in the range of 450 - 550.

Can any of you guys offer any advice on parts such as the ones mentioned above? I'd love to hear from anyone who is running a 470 currently.
 
I'm running a Muscle Motors 470 kit. Though it is still in the building process. I went with Stage VI Max wedge cylinder heads P5249579. I'll be running a STR-14 intake and two 750 Edelbrocks. I going to run a Hughes engine flat tappet cam, HUG HTL 8087BS.
 
Hey SG, thanks for the quick reply! Just did a google search, but cant seem to find the Muscle Motors site? Was it cost friendly?

Not too sure if i want to run two carbs, as the car will be a weekend warrior, and I reckon trying to tune two carbs might be a bit much for a novice!

Was there a reason you chose to run two rather than one?
 
I built a 470 stroker last winter and have had great success with it. Here is my build
400 Block
Aluminum main caps with studs
440 steel cranked stroked
3.915 Stroke
4.375 Bore
Ross Pistons Dome C.H. 1.633
Eagle Rods
Bullet solid roller Cam .681 lift 280 duration @ .050
Milodon oil system
Comp lifters and springs
Smith Brothers push rods
Harland Sharps 1.5 roller rockers
452 heads fully ported polished and bowl work
M1 intake
Holly 1000 cfm carb
Msd ignition
TTI headers
Electric fan
 
yee gads, a 470, why bother. for the same price you can build a 512cu.in. motor. get the heads with the max wedge size ports and big valves. now you have something.
 
Thanks captain, sounds like a nice set up! Question for you about the carb: I've been told that I should be running no bigger than an 800cfm carb. I noticed that yours is sizably bigger...... Have you had any issues with the 1000?

I'm a bit hesitant in going the solid cam route..... I know that they are better power wise, but I think in my case, with the car having a street focus, I'm better off with a hyd roller. Open to suggestion though!

Bob, a simple answer to your question........ Because that's what I want to build! Looked at the 500 and 512, but just like the idea of the 470. Sounds like you don't like these motors........ Have you built one in the past? 470's are quite rare here in Oz, and I've heard of these engines running decent horsepower and torque figures both here and in the U.S, so I'm pretty happy to build one.
 
The 470 low deck is as long a stroke as you can have before the piston pin itersects with the oil ring.
 
Hey Pro470 I actually had an 800 cfm carb and it was not enough. I sent the carburetor to a carb specialist with my specs of the engine and he flowed it to 1000cfm. The car now runs so much better. I do drive the car on the road with a solid cam but I do not drive the car that often. The car makes plenty of power, but I have not had the time to get it to the track yet. A buddy of mine had the exact same set up in his duster but with Indy heads and he ran 9.90s. I do plain on minitubing the car first because it has a hard time getting traction. However you build it is up to you. One thing guarantied it will be a blast to drive on the road!
 
My 470"
400 block/4.375" bore
Eagle crank 3.900
Manley 6.760 rods
Diamond pistons 10.2:1
Edelbrock 84cc heads
Comp street solid roller 242/[email protected] .570/.576
Comp pro mag rockers
Smith Bros. pushrods
Edelbrock Performer RPM
Holley 800 DP
Idles at 800 rpm w/13" vac. Chassis dyno showed 415 rwhp at 5500 and over 500 ft lbs from 3000 up.

It's fun
 
Hey SGBARRACUDA I plan on getting a short block 470 from them..... I don't like the idea of the pin into the oil rings either.... DTM :D
 
Seems like there' s a bit of a trend towards the good old solid cam in these builds! I know these are better for power, but really do want to keep a) maintenance down, and b) keep it streetable. Has anyone had reasonable success with a hyd roller?

Captain, thanks for your advice re the carb. Do you think that the 800 may have been a bit small for the cam choice originally? Your friends build sounds tuff as nails though, as does yours.... I reckon mine will be a blast too! As for mini tubbing, unfortunately, here in Oz mini tubbing is frowned upon, and is usually deemed illegal in a street registered car......... Some guys do it and get away with it, but I really want mine to be a "true" street car. it sucks though, cos I really want to run a 10 inch tyre on the back! Hopefully I'll work out how to do it........ How do you find the 452's? I have a set as well, however worry that I wont be able to get a decent flow through them. The other thing is that I can get a set of aluminium heads built and imported from the States for not much more than what it would cost me to work the 452's...... What kind of power is your set up making?

DCuda, how do you find the Eddy RPM? I was originally looking at a Victor Jnr, but I reckon they are a bit too much on the street. I'm looking at the RPM now.
 
And thanks Mike! Had a quick look at the two combos'. Man, they sure are sweet units! I think though that they may be just a little too angry for the street? Have you built any milder versions for your customers? Also, do you ship parts internationally? Had a look on your website, but couldnt pick up what other performance parts you deal in. It would be great to just deal with one shop in the States, and it sounds like you have more than enough experience with these motors!
 
PRO470 said:
Hey SG, thanks for the quick reply! Just did a google search, but cant seem to find the Muscle Motors site? Was it cost friendly?

Not too sure if i want to run two carbs, as the car will be a weekend warrior, and I reckon trying to tune two carbs might be a bit much for a novice!

Was there a reason you chose to run two rather than one?
Click to expand...

I'm building a Nostagia Super Stock and the rules dictate I can only use factory type carbs. This is why I'm using a STR-14 and two 750 Carter type carbs. can't run Holley in this class on a wedge motor.
 
Right, I gotchya now SG. I recko I'll stick with the single carb for now. Might be easier to live with day to day.
 
The 600hp 470 idled well and was pulling 12inches of vacuum. Had very broad power band and is a great street engine. The 730hp is a race engine.
 
Hey Mike, yep, i thought as much.

Quicjk question for you; Do you think a BIGS 850 would do the trick? Again (and i know guys, I'm sounding like a broken record, sorry), I want to go a hydraulic roller, not a solid, so think maybe i should carb down a little?
 
850 is way bigger than a 950. 950 will do the trick, Holley Ultra HP 950 is a sweet *** carb.
A Lunati 60313 will get you a solid 585/575 HP/TQ 470 with stage 2 ported RPM heads or some Victor with a stage 1 port job. Fully ported Victors with the std port and a Victor intake will get you around 650-660HP with the 60313 cam.
 
Thanks again Mike! A couple of questions for you;

1 - What manifold will work best with the stage 2 Eddy heads?

2 - Victor heads/manifold combo too much for the street?

3 - Is the Lunati cam a hyd roller? Also, is it a retro fit?

4 - What type of roller rockers (ratio/brand) would you recommend?

I know guys, sorry again, newbie questions, but if I dont ask I dont learn!
 
mischiefdart said:
The 470 low deck is as long a stroke as you can have before the piston pin itersects with the oil ring.
Click to expand...


This is incorrect , you can build a 511" low deck using the same pistons as you would to build the 451 and the 470 ... 1.320 ... the difference is the rod used to go with the stroke .

PRO470 , make sure you have the crank checked, unfortunately you'll be stuck with it since it will be cheaper to have it fixed where you live than to try and ship it back .
 
450-550 is a pretty wide range. Might want to get a goal and shoot for that as a 100 hp range will take some different stuff to get there.

450-500 is pretty easy to get with a 440, somewhat mild hyd cam and decent heads/intake/carb/headers. Getting over 500 takes a more aggressive cam.

470's are good engines. I know plenty that prefer them to the 499-511 engines. If it's what you want, build it up.

Oh joy, Lunati changed all their part numbers
 
John, thanks for the advice, it would be a pretty time consuming and expensive exercise to ship an incorrect crank backwards and forwards! As I'm new to big block Chryslers, is there a company that you would recommend checking out? I've only really looked at the 440Source stuff, however a couple of guys back home in Oz reckon that the cranks are ok, but the rods and pistons arent really up to scratch. No use in buying a kit if I have to scrap parts.......

Hey cracked, your right, I reckon I should have a more precise plan power wise, so I reckon that I'll shoot for the 45orwhp mark. Considering it will be a pump gas car, i think this figure will be achievable, and more than enough for a regularly street driven car. If I get more out of it, then great!

Mike from MRl has been a wealth of information for me, and I've done some research into the cam and carb that he has suggested. In these builds though, its always good to get as much opinion as possible, so what do you think of the Lunati cam and the Holley? Also, what manifold would you consider for this?

I'll be getting a custom exhaust made by a great company here in Oz, so I'm sure that I'll be able to get header info out of those guys (Gonzo's Pipes, in case your interested!).

Still stuck on the whole Eddy Ally heads vs reworking the 452's that I have..........
 
450RWHP, build it to have 550 at the flywheel and you should be safely there.

A 470 with 10.5, ported ede's/source, good cam, Intake and Carb and have at it. I like Hyd rollers too. They tend to work well.
 
Ok, cool, sounds like a plan! So, this is the bare bones of what I'm thinking......


Cam - I think I'll go with Mikes suggestion of the Lunati Voodoo (60313) with Lunati lifters,
Heads - Eddy Performer RPM (I reckon I'll get them in a a complete unit, not bare)
Manifold - Eddy Performer RPM
Carb - Holley Ultra HP 950
Rockers - Lunati 1.5 roller rockers

That should be good enough to get the power (or if not close to) that I'm after? I'll be putting either a 904 or 727 (manualised reverse pattern) behind it. I'm thinking a 3000 stall convertor?
 
PRO470 said:
Cam - I think I'll go with Mikes suggestion of the Lunati Voodoo (60313) with Lunati lifters,
Heads - Eddy Performer RPM (I reckon I'll get them in a a complete unit, not bare)
Manifold - Eddy Performer RPM
Carb - Holley Ultra HP 950
Rockers - Lunati 1.5 roller rockers

That should be good enough to get the power (or if not close to) that I'm after? I'll be putting either a 904 or 727 (manualised reverse pattern) behind it. I'm thinking a 3000 stall convertor?
Click to expand...

If you glean anything from Mike's builds it' that this combo likes big ports. The RPMs are a great head, and would be my #1 choice for your build too. But the cam IMO is not large enough for a std wedge sized port with no work in it to make 550hp (you mentioned 450rwhp as a target). You need more duration and I'd run a solid flat tappet to get some manners (relatively speaking) into it and broaden the power peaks. Something like the Comp XTQ294S-8: 294 299 264 270 .567 .579 108º .
On the hard parts - Source cranks ususally have some taper. I haven't had one that exceeded .0005" accross the journal - but they all have taper. The rods are decent, but like the crank the finish machining is sub-par. The rods should be cycled with the correct lube (they use the wrong stuff at the factory), and then both ends properly sized. Sanding the pin bushing to fit the pin isn't acceptable to me. Also - have your shop balance them as thiers is only lsightly better than a factory balance job, which sucks. The pistons are probably the nicest parts in the kits. They are decent, but again, IMO not full competition quality.
 
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