5.7 Eagle build thoughts...

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Cevidicus

Cevidicus

CevidiGrinch
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This is what Im planning on squandering my money on soon. Please tell me what you think on parts selection as well as hp/tq potential.

09 5.7 Eagle hemi long block. Stock
6.1 Indy Mod Man intake with single 4 bbl plate
TTi headers
Milodon oil pan and pick up
Modified stock wind age tray
Stock 6.4 cam(578/537 286*/288* 113 or so lsa)
Comp phaser lock outs
Non mds lifters
Stock eagle valve springs
780 Holley vac secondary
FAST XIM ignition controller


Sorry if I missed something doing this fr my iPhone out in the middle of nowhere.

Thanks
C
 
Cevidicus said:
09 5.7 Eagle hemi long block. Stock
6.1 Indy Mod Man intake with single 4 bbl plate
TTi headers
Milodon oil pan and pick up
Modified stock wind age tray
Stock 6.4 cam(578/537 286*/288* 113 or so lsa)
Comp phaser lock outs
Non mds lifters
Stock eagle valve springs
780 Holley vac secondary
FAST XIM ignition controller
Click to expand...

Seems like a good combo. Too bad nobody supports the variable cam timing on these motors yet for a retrofit. I don't know that you will see much more HP then that of an earlier 5.7 with a similar setup. But if you already have the block, I say go for it.
 
kb67mopar said:
Seems like a good combo. Too bad nobody supports the variable cam timing on these motors yet for a retrofit. I don't know that you will see much more HP then that of an earlier 5.7 with a similar setup. But if you already have the block, I say go for it.
Click to expand...

I got a sweet deal on an '09 5.7 a couple years ago so that's why I'm so enamored with them. It sucks that there is nothing proven to run the VVT but it'll be figured out sooner or later. Until then, I'll just lock out the cam phaser and install the cam straight up or a couple degrees advanced depending on how valve clearance looks.

A 5.7 Eagle Challenger with a 6 speed makes around 350 RWHP so 400 RWHP with more cam, intake, headers and no cats is a reasonable expectation in my opinion and that of several others. Hell, I'd be happy with 350 or 375 rwhp.
 
Hell, you could pull the cam and stick in a cam for the 08 and down. Have you talked to dave weber at modernmuscle.biz or stu at inertiamotorsports.com they might be able to help ya out with some cam selections.
 
I'd definitely talk to someone with first hand experience regarding cam selection. That being said, I THINK that once you lock out the cam advance and retard you should be able to use any hemi cam you choose. Of course you'd also have to replace the displacement on demand lifters as well.

Arrington does sell VVT compatible cams.

http://www.shophemi.com/c-298-cams.aspx

As far as getting the variable valve timing to work. It is my understanding that the 09 and later 5.7 Hemi motors MIGHT have the following characteristics: 1-Displacement on Demand, 2-Variable Valve Timing, and 3-Variable intake runner length.

According the Wikipedia the 5.7L Truck Hemi from 09 and later has all three unless it is in the heavy duty truck in which drops the displacement on demand.

The 5.7L Car Hemi has variable valve timing and displacement demand, but doesn't have variable intake runner length.

Here's a You Tube video explaining some of the changes for the 6.4L 392 Hemi, many of the changes made in creating the 6.4L were first used in the new 2010 and later 5.7L Hemis.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fk9OPAGL1io&feature=fvwrel"]Technology Revew: The 2012 6.4-Liter HEMI SRT V8 engine exposed - YouTube[/ame]

In getting the VVT to work in an engine swap, it appears as though the Jeep guys are ahead of us. One advantage is that they probably already have the built in wheel sensors and other sensors necessary for the computer to work.

Here's a write up of transplanting a 5.7L hemi into a Jeep Rubicon:

http://www.jk-forum.com/jk-fabricat...t-hemi-swap-2010-jk-unlimited-rubicon-223578/

To see the pics you have to join the forum.

As far as getting the VVT and Variable length intake runners to work in an engine swap situation there are some things to consider.

1. Variable valve timing can have issues with piston to valve clearance, so care should be taken to make sure that any aftermarket cam doesn't cause the valves to strike the pistons.

2. The variable intake runner would actually be the easiest to implement with an aftermarket ECM as change in runner length is accomplished at a set RPM with a simple valve. According to the video for the 6.4L / 392 Hemi, a valve opens shortening the runner length at 4800 RPM. That is quite simple to program in an ECM. If your 09 Hemi is a truck hemi with the variable runner length you could lock the cam and still use the variable runner length and pick up some low end torque with the longer intake runner length.

3. The variable valve timing might be more problematic. First off, let me say, I don't know squat about how it works. While the intake runner is pretty simple, it seems that variable valve timing varies a lot more than intake runner length. Throttle position, manifold vacuum, RPM are probably all used to determine the total advance and retard to the camshaft.

4. I was going to point you to a Megasquirt forum where they are beta testing the VVT control, but the one thread that discussed VVT and the Hemi that I could find was started by YOU!.

5. They are doing beta testing for VVT on the MS3 boards, you've probably already read this thread, but here it is again.
http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=125&t=38890&hilit=vvt

6. If and it is a big IF, you really wanted to get VVT working you're learning curve would resemble a vertical ascent. You'd have both hardware and software issues to deal with, as one poster put it on the MS boards, your best bet might be to get the motor running with a good solid tune with the VVT locked out, and wait until you have the expertise to tackle VVT, or wait until someone blazes the trail first.

Best of Luck,

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
As usual your post is dead on, Joe.

The complexities withe the vvt and lack of any tried and true stand alone ecm's is why I've decided to lock it out and run a carb for now. I'll still enjoy it and when a good system comes out in the future I'll be all over it.

Thanks for your input.

CM
 
You're welcome. I didn't realize until I read your first post, that the 6.4L / 392 Cam was so radical.

Keep us posted.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
I think the big obstacle is just figuring out how the VVT is actually controlled. I would assume it's not just an on-off style valve and instead more like a servo control with a sweep of motion that could be controlled by something like pulse width modulation (PWM), similar to some idle control valves. In fact, now that I think about it that makes a lot of sense. The control mechanism might essentially be something similar to an idle control valve that advances or retards the cam based on a number of steps.

I think actually actuating the VVT would probably be the easy part, figuring out the conditions you want to operate it under would be the real challenge. You may be able to do something as simple as retarding the cam under low rpm low load conditions for torque and ramping it up as the rpm and load rises, either linearly or using some curve you determine. You may not have factory style performance, but you could still see a benefit. Sort of like MDS. Theoretically you could just have an on-off switch for the solenoids, but you might notice the power change unlike a stock setup that monitors a lot more sensors and tries to make it more seamless.

You may look into the VVT system used in the Viper. It's a little more exotic cam-in-cam design that only advances the exhaust lobes as opposed to the whole cam (I think it still works that way at least), but the actuation system may be similar. Since it's something Chrysler has already designed and used I'd think they would probably try to take some parts and technology from it. Also, since it's been around longer there may be some more knowledge as to how it's controlled that you could research for ideas.
 
That looks good, of course you could use a 4150 style throttle body and injection, the modman manifold has bosses for injectors precast.

One of the things I don't like about the injected motors is that they just don't look as cool as say a sixpac or dual carb setup.

Keep us posted.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
Joe Dokes said:
That looks good, of course you could use a 4150 style throttle body and injection, the modman manifold has bosses for injectors precast.

One of the things I don't like about the injected motors is that they just don't look as cool as say a sixpac or dual carb setup.

Keep us posted.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
Click to expand...
The rails do look kind of goofy.....
 
That's one thing that I sort of like about my setup, even after injected. I have the 4 bbl throttle body and plain style round air cleaner on top of it. Aside from the rails it looks a lot like an old carb still. I never really liked the look of the modern throttle bodies on an old car, they just don't have the provisions and clearances to mount a big honkin' tube on the front of the engine or a place for a proper air box. Not to mention I can use my hood scoop now =P.

The factory manifold is definitely the cheaper way to go if you do want injected though. Plus it's probably one of the best performers of the bunch. I only went with my setup because I sold off the factory manifold by the time I got a computer.
 
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