5.7L/ABS Donor Car for 1967+ Dart

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Filthy

Filthy

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I'm in the process of selecting a donor vehicle for a Dart. The plan is to buy a wrecker, pull the parts I need (including ABS), build out the motor/trans, buy an aftermarket rack (RMS/MagnumForce/Other), and then drop it all in a 1967-1973 Dart. I have some friends in the 'salvage/sale' business, and some that have done this kind of swap before...consensus is that a 5.7L is the engine to get, but there are some trade-offs with different donor vehicles. I have ~$8k set aside for donor car and drivetrain mods. I hear I can about break even if I get a good donor and part it out a bit. I'm hoping we can capture the pros/cons of the different options and identify some my best choice. The choices:

  • 2003–present Ram Pickup
  • 2004–2009, 2011–present Dodge Durango
  • 2005–present Chrysler 300 300C
  • 2005–2008 Dodge Magnum R/T
  • 2005–present Dodge Charger R/T
  • 2005–present Jeep Grand Cherokee
  • 2006–2010 Jeep Commander
  • 2007–2009 Chrysler Aspen
  • 2009–present Dodge Challenger
From searching other threads, the big trade-offs seem to be Car vs Truck
Car has pretty intake, truck has better fitting pulleys. Car manifolds go straight back, truck manifolds go down.
MDS - NoGo for a boosted engine (turbos maybe eventually), correct?
VVT - not available in older (cheaper) engines, should I care?

Ram/Durango/Jeep - any difference in the ABS system to the cars? Any difference in the cars' ABS systems?
Interior - what should I save? I hear front seats sit too high (power). I want to keep the interior classic, but I will probably add a modern stereo with BT/GPS. Anything I should yank besides gauge cluster and fuse box?

Really enjoying the forum, wish this was around in the 90s when I was building A-bodies. I promise to bring pics/vids when I get started.
:)
 
If I were going donor vehicle I think I would shoot for the jeep. You would have to get a different trans but I think you may be able to adapt the rear end to the dart nad then use the abs sensors installed in it to run the abs. Jeep manifolds will work with an altercation. The jeep srt manifolds required notching the drivers side mount but I am not sure if the 5.7 ones would.
All just theory on rear end fitment I had measured one once about 5 years ago with the thought of doing just that with mine but the guy that had it thought it was made of gold so I wasn't able to get my hands on it for test fitting.
As far as I know it is still sitting rotting in his back yard
 
I'm still undecided on the rear end. Tim Perrin (he did the body-on fabrication for this Dart) told me that he has a jig for fitting a Charger differential under a Dart, but if it was up to him he'd just bolt a 4-link and a standard Mopar 8.75/9.25 under it. The transmission seems like a pretty big deal, I was wanting to go with a NAG1, from reading other discussions. I was thinking a 2007-2010 Police Charger would be the best starting point, they can be had running/clear title/high miles for <$4k.

If I don't keep the rear end, is a Jeep still better than a PoPo Charger? I was also thinking that the transfer case and other AWD parts would help make my money back when I'm parting it out. Not so much?
 
srt jeep rear axel is a Dana 44. Coil spring mount setup. Can find them with some decent gears in them. Grand Cherokee of same year is an 8 1/4 and I know they can be found with 3.73. Biggest issue with charger rear is the enter section is a soiled mount with independent axels. Much wider than the dart also. Stock gearing 2.82. Srt has 3.06
That dart turned out nice. I believe there was something on here when it was being built and unless my memory is incorrect (possible). They had to widen the body or at least he rear quarters when they put it together to fit the rear end
 
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yeah - that Dart they did a 'body-on', and bulged out a new set of quarters...if you look closely you can see it.
Sounds like the 'ideal' setup doesn't exist in a donor car, and I'll need to 2nd-source the rear end or the transmission... true story?
 
Glad to hear someone interested in getting ABS on their muscle car! I am planning to try this as well, but my initial thought it to get an early Subaru STi set-up. The cars weigh about the same & it has big brakes too.
 
anyone know how to tell if a 5.7L is an MDS?
I know the manual trans cars don't have MDS, but having a tough time identifying which engines are MDS based on VIN/Year/etc.

EDIT - MDS, not MVD...doh.
 
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actually, I guess a better question is:

were any passenger vehicles after 2005/2006 offered without MDS? Wiki seems to indicate that all automobile 5.7L engines are MDS, and only the trucks have the option of non-MDS (SMPI)

Multi-Displacement System - Wikipedia
 
I'm casting my eyes at the 8 spd automatic, the 8HP70. Unless someone talks me out of it.
 
Your easiest swap would be a 2003-2005 Ram with 4x2. You'd have the 5.7L with a 545RFE. From the tank you seem to want to keep automatic and this one is the easiest modern one to make work. The NAG1 does take some extra parts and setup.

All 5.7L car motors have MDS but it's quite easy to remove. The 6.1L don't have MDS...

I've seen anyone get the ABS system to work so you'll have your work cut out for you.

Riddler
 
if I don't do the ABS, the 545FRE is definitely the choice...I know the NAG1 won't work without 'faking' the ABS, not sure about the 8HP70.

Can you point me to some of the 'tried and failed' efforts at getting ABS to work? I know the 'body-on' worked, and Bill at RMS said it would work with an AlterKation front end...but I'd like to identify any hurdles that folks have hit before I buy my donor.

Also, is there a downside in making power with a VVT engine? I see turbo/supercharger bolt-on kits for VVT engines, but does an aftermarket EFI delete VVT function?
 
Picked up a 2007 Police Interceptor, it's in Topeka waiting to ship to me.

Working on my list of parts to pull, and parts to leave to resale.
 
shipping on the Police Charger is booked, should be here in the next two weeks.
Now I'm just cleaning up and organizing some garage space.

When it gets here I'll transfer title and get it registered/insured.

Anyone have inputs on the best way to do the MDS-delete? As I understand it, I need (8) 'hellcat' lifters, (4) MDS-delete solenoids, and the ability to turn off the MDS on the ECU. What are my options for programming the ECU?

Also, I have some forged H-Beam 6.125" SB Chevy rods from Eagle, can I have the stock crank machined to fit SBC bearing journals? Down the road I might add boost, so forged pistons will go in when I rebuild it.

Any opinions on where to spend my engine/transmission rebuild money? There's ~ $3500 in the budget today.
 
Filthy said:
Anyone have inputs on the best way to do the MDS-delete? As I understand it, I need (8) 'hellcat' lifters, (4) MDS-delete solenoids, and the ability to turn off the MDS on the ECU.
Click to expand...

Or just buy a programmer and turn it off...
 
Filthy said:
shipping on the Police Charger is booked, should be here in the next two weeks.
Now I'm just cleaning up and organizing some garage space.

When it gets here I'll transfer title and get it registered/insured.

Anyone have inputs on the best way to do the MDS-delete? As I understand it, I need (8) 'hellcat' lifters, (4) MDS-delete solenoids, and the ability to turn off the MDS on the ECU. What are my options for programming the ECU?


Any opinions on where to spend my engine/transmission rebuild money? There's ~ $3500 in the budget today.
Click to expand...
I'd spend some money on the heads, pre-'09 engines have a reputation for dropping valve seats if engine is overheated.
I'd go with the solid axle, believe it'll be lighter than the IRS on the Charger, and may be cheaper to narrow than IRS.
If you can't find a Jeep axle to use, look at an explorer, Durango, or Dakota. Probably have to narrow any of these choices.
A body rears are very narrow!
Your car will fly even with a stock 5.7, much lighter than that Charger, and Pursuit Chargers aren't slow, I've got an '09!
The cheap way to disable MDS is to unplug it!
My '08 Durango has needed the #6 solenoid replaced for about a year, still runs great, just no MDS.
 
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sccachallenger said:
I'd spend some money on the heads, pre-'09 engines have a reputation for dropping valve seats if engine is overheated.
I'd go with the solid axle, believe it'll be lighter than the IRS on the Charger, and may be cheaper to narrow than IRS.
If you can't find a Jeep axle to use, look at an explorer, Durango, or Dakota. Probably have to narrow any of these choices.
A body rears are very narrow!
Your car will fly even with a stock 5.7, much lighter than that Charger, and Pursuit Chargers aren't aren't slow, I've got an '09!
Click to expand...

I talked my machinist today, he's done a bunch of 5.7L Hemis...first thing he said was 'it'll be the most expensive work, but replace the valve seats'

Is the ABS the same for a Charger and a Jeep/Dakota/Durango, and if so, what years/models?

My 'fab-guy' has a jig setup to narrow the IRS, and he's willing to charge me the same for narrowing a 9 1/4 and fitting a 4-link, or narrowing/fitting the IRS (including having Moser cut/respline the axles)
 
got a quote for a cam from Schneider, IIRC it was .580 lift, 216 split duration. Nice cam for a 'sleeper' and/or 'turbo' car.
can't find inconel exhaust valves for the 5.7L, are they made? if not, what's the next best thing for a turbo exhaust?
 
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