572 RB Street motor advice?

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beepbeep46 said:
I could increase stroke, but that would put more demand on head performance? Trick Flow made 687HP with 10.15:1 and 505 cubic inch with 270 heads. I somehow think that combination stretched some would reach 700HP+. Plus a little, not 100HP+.
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Wont a stroke that long be hard on a 440 block ? They have a tendancy to split between the mains and cam ???????
Or did he say he was going aftermarket on the block ?
 
beepbeep46 said:
I could increase stroke, but that would put more demand on head performance? Trick Flow made 687HP with 10.15:1 and 505 cubic inch with 270 heads. I somehow think that combination stretched some would reach 700HP+. Plus a little, not 100HP+.
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In the testing I did for Trick Flow I made 750 hp with a pump gas 470 engine using the Trick Flow 270 heads. It required a decent size solid roller cam though. I don't think that power level could be reached with a hyd cam.

You need to figure out what you really want and then go from there. Figure out if running 9's is important or if you want the car to be street friendly. If you want both then the job gets harder. Most of this is simple math starting with the car weight. Once you know the weight you'll know how much power is required to run the time you want. Once you know the power requirement you can figure out the engine combination.
 
beepbeep46 said:
700-800HP is range I am shooting for. Car will be caged and tied together with overdrive and mufflers for short street trips to shows (20-30mile). Want a high 9 - low 10 second car that isn't a high maintenance 14:1, radical roller cammed trailer queen. I'm open to adding 105 octane to the tank, but not filling up with Q16. I know I could put Predator heads and big mechanical roller cam in it and turn higher RPM, but that isn't what I want.
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The Duster that I'm doing for Car Craft will have enough power to run high 9's and it is very street friendly. It is a pump gas 512 with EFI and a hyd roller cam. It is 600+ hp with 3100 lbs so a weight to power ratio of a little over 5. That works out to high 9's if everything else is working properly. Sometimes it takes a lot of work to get the chassis to run the number but in theory it should do it.

So if your car is in that weight range you don't need a 572. You should be able to run high 9's or low 10's with a pump gas 512 and a Sniper Xflow. I think you might need a solid roller to make 700 hp but who knows, perhaps someone can come up with a hyd roller lobe that will get you there.
 
My suggestion would be to go on the various message boards and ask to see similar combos to what you’re building.
Specifically the 9 second, pump gas, hyd cammed, 100% Street friendly combos in 3400-ish pound cars.

That’ll give you some insight as to what it takes to get there.
 
PRH said:
My suggestion would be to go on the various message boards and ask to see similar combos to what you’re building.
Specifically the 9 second, pump gas, hyd cammed, 100% Street friendly combos in 3400-ish pound cars.

That’ll give you some insight as to what it takes to get there.
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If the car is 3400 lbs on the starting line then you would need close to 700 to dip into the 9's. But that is 700 hp on the starting line which means full exhaust hooked up, car headers rather than dyno headers, possibly engine drive fan, water pump and alternator depending on how street friendly the car is. Not to mention the converter. A street friendly converter can slow down the ET significantly compared to a 5000+ stall setup. So given all of that you probably need to shoot for at least 750 hp on the dyno.

I haven't built any 700 hp engines with hyd roller cams. The pump gas strokers we build with hyd roller cams tend to end up in the 600 to 625 range. A solid roller pump gas 505 will easily get into the 700 range with Trick Flow heads.
 
There really isn’t a head with enough flow for big inch mopars that will flow what u need/want. A big Chevy is totally different as they have a head that will flow 400 cfm out of the box. Kim
 
AndyF said:
The Duster that I'm doing for Car Craft will have enough power to run high 9's and it is very street friendly. It is a pump gas 512 with EFI and a hyd roller cam. It is 600+ hp with 3100 lbs so a weight to power ratio of a little over 5. That works out to high 9's if everything else is working properly. Sometimes it takes a lot of work to get the chassis to run the number but in theory it should do it.

So if your car is in that weight range you don't need a 572. You should be able to run high 9's or low 10's with a pump gas 512 and a Sniper Xflow. I think you might need a solid roller to make 700 hp but who knows, perhaps someone can come up with a hyd roller lobe that will get you there.
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I may need to change some plans. 572 was number because I already have 4.5 bore Bulldog block. I had planned cross ram to look similar to BO29 hemi, that can change if needed. With the Gerst front suspension I can have less restrictive headers. I am also open to using a solid roller cam, and having converter built to car and engine power curve. The Cuda should weigh in close to your Duster, I'm looking for low 6s in the 1/8 which equates to mid 9s in 1/4. Since I haven't bought crank or heads yet, would I be better to go B1 with a 4.65 or 4.75 crank, and soften camshaft to make this feasible? I've heard stories about oiling issues with B1, and I don't want to get over the edge radical motor. Would something like a Torque Storm supercharger be an option? I have the block, and the car so the rest is an open page. I'm not looking to run drag week or Super Comp with a street car, just say 9.45. Muscle Motors had a King Krate engine, it had 4.56 bore and 4.75 stroke 622 C.I. and 910 HP at 6000 RPM. That is what sparked this build, big inches and lower rpm. The 4.50 bore is fixed, stroke is open to suggestion and heads are open but looks to be B! may be the way to go? Hate to be hashing this out, but I would like to be able to put it together once and be right. Thanks for all the input.
 
I would calm Dwayne Porter as I’ve said b4. U need to find a head first that can support 400 cfm at least with that many cubes. Kim
 
Mid 9's means you'll need a weight to power ratio of 4.5 in a good chassis. In a street chassis you might need more like a 4:1 ratio. So if the car is 3200 lb race ready (with driver) then you'll want at least 800 hp on tap.

An 800 hp pump gas engine that is street friendly is going to take some work. If it was me I'd use a 4.25 crank to keep the oiling internal so that gives you 540 inches which means you are shooting for 1.50 hp/inch. Not a crazy number to hit with a pump gas engine but everything has to be correct. You'll probably need a little more head than the TF 270 to hit 800 hp so perhaps the next step up would be one of the CNC version of the 440-1.

I'd use a professionally ported 440-3 intake with a 2000 cfm Holley throttle body and plumb the intake for port injection. Use a Holley dual sync distributor and you'll have a fully controllable EFI + ignition system. Not sure on the cam, I'd say a solid roller in the 260 or 270 range for duration and as much lift as you can afford. Maybe something in the 700 to 750 range for valve lift. Good thing about a big engine is you most likely won't be turning it much past 6500 rpm so the valve train will have a fighting chance. You'll need high quality rocker arms, springs and pushrods. Probably need to work with T&D and Manton.

Probably cost a solid $20K to $25K to build an engine like on top of the block that you already have. You'll want to work with a shop that has a bunch of experience with those types of engines since they'll be able to save you from the rookie mistakes. It still might take two or three tries to find the correct cam profile. A 2 inch to 2 1/8 header would probably work pretty well and you'll want at least a 3 inch exhaust if not a 3.5.

Good luck.
 
Muscle Motors had a King Krate engine, it had 4.56 bore and 4.75 stroke 622 C.I. and 910 HP at 6000 RPM.
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Any examples of how they run in cars?

Mid-9’s in car with a similar build as yours?
 
We have a guy who runs a 3950lb+ Chally with all factory interior, not cut about with a very good sorted chassis, a 580 wedge with ported 572-13's, (close to 400cfm) a s/roller around 730", nothing too extreme and 11:1CR with 2 x Doms and makes around 890fwhp and runs 9.5's@141. At say 3200lbs all in and a good chassis you'll need a true on track 750fwhp to run 9.45@142 according to my numbers. As I mentioned prior, that 589 wedge my mate has bought is not quite there for you@10:1, a very small .620" s/roller, 572-13's probably ootb?, (you could do it with ported -1's) single 850DP@714hp, (that motor was built originally as a 605 with a 4.625 crank but it didn't work out for whatever reason), but that is easily upgraded for your needs, just some more info for you that may help in deciding which way to go on a more street orientated type big wedge.
 
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Why not put a 572 (or bigger) Hemi crossram in your BO29 clone ?
 
604B1duster said:
Why not put a 572 (or bigger) Hemi crossram in your BO29 clone ?
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I already have the RB Bull Dog block. That’s why I’m going big block. Realistically, 9.90 is great but a few tenths reserve doesn’t hurt. I want the BO 29 look, not down on the ground, tube chassis look.
 
Thank you everyone for your input. It really helps to get experienced advice. I don’t think I was being realistic with hydraulic cam plans, or cross ram. Fuel injection may stay with Super Victor or ModMan intake? I have a great engine builder who will help me also. I like the Fuel Injection and keeping RPM below 7000. Will up compression and blend in some race fuel if needed, but prefer Pump Premium. I really feel I can get this combo to work if I get the right parts together.
 
The Indy 440-1 CNC 345cc heads might work good, and still be able to run a crossram
 
oldkimmer said:
Find the best head out there. U need atleast 400 cfm. Kim
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That narrows down the options. B1s or 572-13. Each have drawbacks for street use. Which is lesser evil? I intend to buy package with rockers. If B1, which version? If 572-13, I would get the 385 CNC.
 
Pretty limited on intake choices with B1 heads. Cast single Dominator or sheet metal. I’m sure someone could build a sheet metal B1 cross ram manifold for like $3-4K
 
604B1duster said:
Pretty limited on intake choices with B1 heads. Cast single Dominator or sheet metal. I’m sure someone could build a sheet metal B1 cross ram manifold for like $3-4K
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I think the cross ram may have to go away to get the power level I need. Manifolds, spray bar valve covers, custom headers, and costs all complicate my choices. Unlike Chevy, there are limited options with big block Mopar. Looking back, I should have went Gen II Hemi. Then I would have cross ram, high flow heads, etc. I’ve always liked big blocks, my bad.
 
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