6.4 Hemi Ticking

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ArkMopar

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Hey Guys,
I came across a deal I couldn't pass up for a '13 6.4 out of a charger. I heard the engine run before it was pulled and had a slight constant ticking at what seemed all rpms. Supposedly dealership had determined it to be the wrist pins. All the research I have done, the wrist pin problem was narrowed to the 6.4 trucks and only ones built during a few months timespan. I was wondering the chances of if being the mds lifters? Other things to look at before I pull it apart and check clearances?
 
Take a look at my thread, I picked up a 5.7 that had been pulled out of a 2014 Ram truck due to a ticking noise and misfire codes. Turned out to be a failed MDS lifter, roller wheel gave up the ghost and trashed itself and the cam lobe. In my case it was a bit easier to notice which one had failed because it also bent the pushrod, otherwise you'd need to pull the heads to get to the lifters.
 
I got to beek off about this too. I only get to see the broken stuff, when it comes to one of these, it's the lifters, cam, pushrods and the rockers. Otherwise it's a good motor.
 
I have had 3 late model hemis in my shop with ticking and missfires, ALL 3 were cam lobe failure. The lobe starts pitting, and transfers metal to the roller, then the roller stops rolling.
 
Awesome, yea I had already planned on doing the MDS delete, didn't really plan on a cam change but it's better than wrist pins. I got the motor for $800 w/70k miles, so hoping to be in it less than 3k running motor. I'm assuming the MDS works by holding the valves open on those 4 cylinders, I wonder if the plating on the cam wears from the constant load on it if the engine is driven in MDS for long periods/or with poor quality oil.
 
My 5.7 did that. I revd it up about 4K for about 20 seconds and it went away. The Same thing happened on my 2014 ram and I did the same to it and it went away. I probably got lucky. Not saying it will fix yours.
 
been going on a few years, you'd think they'd recall... or at least fix the problem in upcoming years....
 
318willrun said:
been going on a few years, you'd think they'd recall... or at least fix the problem in upcoming years....
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That's what worries me, Chrysler has had a reputation for a while now of trying to weasel out of recalling issues like this. Having a lifter and cam lobe fail is a pretty serious problem when a new camshaft alone costs $600+ and to get to the cam and lifters requires removing the cylinder heads.

Anyway how I understand it, the MDS works by shutting off oil pressure to the hydraulic plunger so it collapses and keeps the valves from opening at all. The fuel injectors for those cylinders are shut off so fuel doesn't puddle behind the intake valve. Just my theory but I bet the lack of pressurized oil has something to do with the lifters failing, it's only the MDS lifters that do this. The non -MDS lifters go forever, you never hear about this problem in non-MDS Hemis such as the ones hooked up to manual transmissions.
 
Btw @ArkMopar I had a wrist pin fail in my 360 when it busted a ring land in one of the pistons; the noise is much louder and "deeper" than valvetrain noise, I'd say it's in between a ticking lifter and rod knock. No surprise it sounds like those dealer techs are clueless.
 
The lobes fail on non MDS cylinders also, has nothing to do with the MDS at all. It has to do with a cast iron cam on a steel roller. And a little tidbit of info, a new cam from chrysler, is a staggering $80.00.......think about that
 
replicaracer43 said:
The lobes fail on non MDS cylinders also, has nothing to do with the MDS at all. It has to do with a cast iron cam on a steel roller. And a little tidbit of info, a new cam from chrysler, is a staggering $80.00.......think about that
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That's for the earlier non-VCT Hemis; I was still incorrect though, a factory replacement cam for VCT Hemis is only $240. The aftermarket VCT ones from Comp are $600+.
 
replicaracer43 said:
The lobes fail on non MDS cylinders also, has nothing to do with the MDS at all. It has to do with a cast iron cam on a steel roller. And a little tidbit of info, a new cam from chrysler, is a staggering $80.00.......think about that
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this is interesting..... 100 yrs of manufacturing and can't give the reliability of a 40 year old 318. It's sad is what it really is. I've not bought, nor I don't know if I would be interested in the Gen III hemi.
I had an old say'n that if it ends in 7, stay away from it. (2.7, 3.7, 4.7, 5.7) Meanwhile my ole' 360 mag in my '01 Ram runs flawlessly at 238,***
 
318willrun said:
this is interesting..... 100 yrs of manufacturing and can't give the reliability of a 40 year old 318. It's sad is what it really is. I've not bought, nor I don't know if I would be interested in the Gen III hemi.
I had an old say'n that if it ends in 7, stay away from it. (2.7, 3.7, 4.7, 5.7) Meanwhile my ole' 360 mag in my '01 Ram runs flawlessly at 238,***
Click to expand...

When I first found out I was nervous too but for every one person with this problem there are like 5 people with 150-200k+ miles on their original Hemi and no issues whatsoever. I *think* with some extra care (running really good oil, keeping up on maintenance etc.) the issue can be preventable. Heck there's an article on Allpar.com about a guy who got his 2004 Hemi Ram up to 500k (yes half a million) miles on his original engine. He says it dropped a valve due to a defective valve spring around 115k miles but that was the only issue.

Here's a link in case you're curious: Jubel Caldwell's Half-a-Million-Mile 2004 Ram 1500
 
@replicaracer43 thanks for pointing out the prices btw, looking some more I have actually found replacement VCT cams from Mopar for $80 or even less. Maybe I'll just save myself $520 and get a replacement non-MDS 6.4L cam for a stick-shift SRT Challenger to put in my 5.7. The specs sure read like a high-performance cam, 286/288* adv. duration with 46* overlap... pretty stout IMO. And my 5.7 is going in my '70 Duster which weighs 1000 lbs. less than a new Challenger so I don't think any loss in bottom-end torque will make much difference.
 
I didn't know if this problem was related to specifically the MDS lifters or all as was said above. I will be tearing the engine down tomorrow and try to pinpoint the problem, starting with the lifters. And yes, somehow new cams are pretty cheap, surprisingly. And my father has an 03 hemi ram with over 270k on it and has had no engine repairs, no water pump, alternator, nothing, 90% gently driven highway miles though. Been running like a champ for nearly 15 years.
 
It seems the cam failure is mostly on 10-14 model years from what I've seen..
 
Thanks guys for all your input, got the driver bank tore down this morning and sure enough, lifter is trashed and took the cam with it. It was a non mds roller too.

15136183899061726803643.jpg
 
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