Lonewolf3165
Living the Dream!
Probably the most intelligent thing said in this post.
**600hp sbm block limit? Or is it bs!!**
- Thread starter Mad Dart
- Start date
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Supershafts
Well-Known Member
You don't think the RL was the issue ? every f/u issue i see is from people using RL's.
burn out box....bouncing off the rl, staged waiting on the light against the rl....
Nothing good comes from that, nothing good
turbodart68
Well-Known Member
I dont think this thread is knock aftermarket blocks at all. More just info so that people can make their own decisions. An R3 block will give you piece of mind that you did your best and it will hold up to a lot of abuse without breaking. Hell if I had the dough I would buy one and anyone who can will. The guys in the NHL play on high dollar skates cause they are free to them.
Supershafts
Well-Known Member
AN R3 has many advantages over stock..
bad440
everything,all the time..
YIPES!!!!!wait till its dialed in!
Mad Dart
Nothing to see Here!
Any new information on this MONSTER?? Inquiring minds want to know!!
Man that is some serious power!
Any new information on this MONSTER?? Inquiring minds want to know!!
Man that is some serious power
needsaresto
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And chebbie guys get all excited when an lsx eclipeses 700 h.p,lol..I've come to realise they are STILL playing catchup to the W2!
moper
Well-Known Member
The w2 would struggle without that overdriven blower...lol
inkjunkie
Well-Known Member
Hardly....these are the numbers from a set of production ported L92 heads....
Lift Intake Exhaust
0.100 71 55
0.200 155 118
0.300 240 190
0.400 302 253
0.500 344 273
0.550 358 280
0.600 360 284
From a set of Battens off of Shady Dells site.......
LIFT------IN/EX
.100"----69.0/N/A
.200"--138.0/112.5
.300"--198.7/163.8
.400"--252.6/193.3
.450"--274.5/200.6
.500"--292.0/206.1
.550"--304.0/209.7
.600"--316.0/212.2
.650"--324.3/212.2
.700"--329.2/213.0
Correct me if I am wrong but I do no think the Battens were an oem head available on damn near every small block made??
1wild&crazyguy
Banned
ink 1, needs 0
lol
lol
turbodart68
Well-Known Member
True but LSes are for asshats. lol
Woods74
Broke Senior
The LS are nice engines. Chrysler doesn't have anything on them. You gonna roll up in there and twist their arm to make something better? Probably not.
Playing brand loyalty now a days isn't for the best result. Denying good technology is ignorant unless your building a concourse. It's almost like saying you love changing ballast resistors because your too prideful to change to HEI.. Or love drum brakes because disk brakes suck. :roll:
1wild&crazyguy
Banned
I agree.
Supershafts
Well-Known Member
Look at the Viper heads if you think mopar has nothing on the ls
The problem we have is the same old song with mopar, what they do they do for that and thats it.
The viper heads use a lot of the learned W tech, and oddly the ls resembles that design quite a few years later after it has been in the Viper for some time.
Same old problem we have
mshred
The Green Manalishi
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How in the heck do the viper heads benefit anyone running an 8 cylinder??? Your comparing engines offered in everything from trucks to performance vehicles to an engine offered in a higher end sports car
LS engines are WICKED....So are the new Hemi's...problem is that the LS stuff has way more aftermarket support, whereas the Hemi's still aren't there yet...IMO the 3G's have more potential then the LS stuff in all out form considering FACTORY head castings
mshred
The Green Manalishi
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I would love to see all these 700hp W2's out there....
Supershafts
Well-Known Member
Forget that you missed the quote and answer to the quote and totally missed the design... pay attention to the design and see the ls , other than the viper head having 5 chambers and the ls having 4, notice the copying of the design with such slight changes as to not be a exact same head minus a chamber
The viper heads design benefited gm.... is what you missed. Whereas as usual mopar dropped the ball, gm doesn't.
Instead of the W tech making it to production with the vipers heads, it gets lost for anything else... Typical mopar screw ups, they should have scrapped the 4.7 and kept the V-10 design scaled it back to 8 and 6 and continued with that.
The hemis are fine as for the heads, problem is the fat they're dragging around and the tuning.
I said it is the same old mopar issues, they worry about 1 thing.
W-2 are there, theyre called 5,7,8,9 now, other than the R9 the others are all W-2 base design
I see n/a W motors in the 8's, thats more than 700hp
mshred
The Green Manalishi
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I didn't miss what you said at all...There is no hard proof that GM copied the viper head, no matter how close they are in design...Whenever I see people say, "so and so copied so and so" it makes me laugh- there is no blatant admitance of it, so we will never really know.
I agree Chrysler tosses good tech and never develops on it, and that it is the same old crap with them....I actually couldn't agree with you more there...
As for the lardy LX platform vehicles, yes they are boats, but some are really MOVING...Not to mention, you see ALOT more GM guys swapping LS motors into the early muscle cars or race cars, but not alot of Mopar guys doing the same with the 3G hemi's...why? I think some of it can be attributed to more development on the LS motors and motor swaps, but also (strictly imo) the stinginess and narrow mindedness of many mopar guys and wanting to stick with what they have...and the price of the hemi core motors because of the stupid name don't help either....
As for the W2 heads, I was talking strictly W2...I know the other ones have killer potential and are running some of the fastest cars out there...but you cannot say that a W9 is a W2...they aren't the same
All I was really getting at, not to get off topic, is how awesome LS motors are (die hard mopar guys will say they suck just because it isn't a mopar), but also the Hemi's...they just haven't been tapped into yet as much as they could...anyways, I will stop since this thread is about stock block LA's and the power they can take
Supershafts
Well-Known Member
W heads are all based on the W head with minor fixes to a specific issue they had in a certain area, like the reason the rocker gear was changed was that nascar sustained use had issues with the 2,5,7 gear, which was unchanged from the orginal W so a late 7 was made that eventually became the w-8, the w-9 is the lighter answer to the heavier w-8...
The 7 had a elongated 5 intake runner that found its way to the 8 also.
There are some strange one off versions of W's though, like the 8 that kicked off the P heads with it's 9 degree and the top secret unmarked W2 that looks like a 18 head that supposedly something like 50 sets were made.
Another issue as i have always seen a major problem in the mopar camp was it's split into 2...
And of the 2 the second group which is larger is also splintered into that stingy area you described where they can't get out of 1950, no matter what you show, do, explain.... they're in the slow 1950 state of mind or simply won't make it better.
The other issue i always see is expense, from my own experience and dealing with the performance mopar world from my own shop our group cuts almost EVERY corner.
I had done work on a few well known cars seen on tv and they could have been so much better, but they listened to who i have no idea who they were listening to but they clearly had no clue and did really poor in the performance of things.
Yes 5.7 HEMI has the same tag as MARINE, you want a HEMI translates into someone paying more .
There is a intake manifold for the new hemi's, no need to keep the f.i. , why some don't drop a new hemi than that STUPID idea that a mag version sb is better than the LA.
Me i'd drop a V-10 in over either, way more power potential and way more street friendly.
I still don't know how in the world a mag motor designed so that mopar no longer needed 2 different variations of heads for 2 different bottom ends and the mag head being better is beyond me, those heads are such a bottle kneck but everyone is doing it....
Just like the 451, how the hell did it turn into putting the entire recip of the 440 into the 400, when what made the 451 make the better power was the use of the 440's crank only and keeping the 400 rod on the only thing used from the 440 which was the crank which changed the RR, which changed it's breathing ability and increased power across the entire rpm band....
Now everyone builds lighter 440's....wth
Our camp is very often it's own worst enemy.
We still have the same dropping the ball manufacture that STILL doesn't understand "YOU WILL not sell that well on monday if WE can't make it better tuesday" Many people don't want to chance it knowing the headace for aftermarket support, but then the aftermarket sucks too, c'mon edel making heads off the mag design... wtf are they high, why would they do something so stupid why not do it off the W design
Like for example the trucks, everyone wanting a truck wants it to work and do work easy.... so gm does the v-8 dura diesel, ford the same with the v-8 powerstroke, they add an additional 100ft lbs, and dodge and cummins drop the ball and simply meet the 100, meanwhile the VERY SAME 6.7 being used somewhere else is making more than the 800ft lb and more than 430hp, so why not REALLY hammer the competition than simply meet it...
The 7 had a elongated 5 intake runner that found its way to the 8 also.
There are some strange one off versions of W's though, like the 8 that kicked off the P heads with it's 9 degree and the top secret unmarked W2 that looks like a 18 head that supposedly something like 50 sets were made.
Another issue as i have always seen a major problem in the mopar camp was it's split into 2...
And of the 2 the second group which is larger is also splintered into that stingy area you described where they can't get out of 1950, no matter what you show, do, explain.... they're in the slow 1950 state of mind or simply won't make it better.
The other issue i always see is expense, from my own experience and dealing with the performance mopar world from my own shop our group cuts almost EVERY corner.
I had done work on a few well known cars seen on tv and they could have been so much better, but they listened to who i have no idea who they were listening to but they clearly had no clue and did really poor in the performance of things.
Yes 5.7 HEMI has the same tag as MARINE, you want a HEMI translates into someone paying more .
There is a intake manifold for the new hemi's, no need to keep the f.i. , why some don't drop a new hemi than that STUPID idea that a mag version sb is better than the LA.
Me i'd drop a V-10 in over either, way more power potential and way more street friendly.
I still don't know how in the world a mag motor designed so that mopar no longer needed 2 different variations of heads for 2 different bottom ends and the mag head being better is beyond me, those heads are such a bottle kneck but everyone is doing it....
Just like the 451, how the hell did it turn into putting the entire recip of the 440 into the 400, when what made the 451 make the better power was the use of the 440's crank only and keeping the 400 rod on the only thing used from the 440 which was the crank which changed the RR, which changed it's breathing ability and increased power across the entire rpm band....
Now everyone builds lighter 440's....wth
Our camp is very often it's own worst enemy.
We still have the same dropping the ball manufacture that STILL doesn't understand "YOU WILL not sell that well on monday if WE can't make it better tuesday" Many people don't want to chance it knowing the headace for aftermarket support, but then the aftermarket sucks too, c'mon edel making heads off the mag design... wtf are they high, why would they do something so stupid why not do it off the W design
Like for example the trucks, everyone wanting a truck wants it to work and do work easy.... so gm does the v-8 dura diesel, ford the same with the v-8 powerstroke, they add an additional 100ft lbs, and dodge and cummins drop the ball and simply meet the 100, meanwhile the VERY SAME 6.7 being used somewhere else is making more than the 800ft lb and more than 430hp, so why not REALLY hammer the competition than simply meet it...
I totally AGREE supershafts......
The ANSWER to your last question there....is Politics, and PROFIT.
The Dodge/Cummins partnership and the 5.9L and 6.7L is the perfect example of this.......Cummins 5.9/6.7L Diesels are far superior to either engine the competition offers.....but it is SOLEY OWNED by Cummins.....Chrysler COULD build and develope an equally Awesome Diesel plaform as the other manufacturers....but WHY? The most ROBUST and Durable Diesel is Produced by Cummins.....and its EASIER to maintain the POLITICS and PROFIT than to spend Millions in Research and Development only to find out the Simplest, Strongest, Most Durable platform has already been developed and they could only make a Variation of THE BEST and cost them precious time and money to learn that lesson.
Chrysler Corp......Kinda like Henry Ford, are FAR from Stupid.
The ANSWER to your last question there....is Politics, and PROFIT.
The Dodge/Cummins partnership and the 5.9L and 6.7L is the perfect example of this.......Cummins 5.9/6.7L Diesels are far superior to either engine the competition offers.....but it is SOLEY OWNED by Cummins.....Chrysler COULD build and develope an equally Awesome Diesel plaform as the other manufacturers....but WHY? The most ROBUST and Durable Diesel is Produced by Cummins.....and its EASIER to maintain the POLITICS and PROFIT than to spend Millions in Research and Development only to find out the Simplest, Strongest, Most Durable platform has already been developed and they could only make a Variation of THE BEST and cost them precious time and money to learn that lesson.
Chrysler Corp......Kinda like Henry Ford, are FAR from Stupid.
Supershafts
Well-Known Member
But Cummins is using the 6.7 well above what they are doing with Dodge, how is it smart business to have the customer choose 1 of 3 all with 750 ft lb.
Why not have gm and ford with there 750 and Dodge with 900.....
bla and blah have 750
We only have 900
All i seen there was 900....
Now let gm and ford play catch up for them to find out oh **** when they went to 900 the 6.7 in marine use was at 1200...
Then bla and blah have 900
We only have 1200
Again i only see 1200
It was funny when cummins had said you asked for more power, and we gave you more power.... I said if you wanted a bigger dick would you be happier if all i gave you was 4/32 of an inch.... and then told you you asked for bigger i gave you bigger.
When people ask for more, they want MORE as in like double or a 3rd more.... I'll never understand why they would want to be on par with the rest and not beyond it
Why not have gm and ford with there 750 and Dodge with 900.....
bla and blah have 750
We only have 900
All i seen there was 900....
Now let gm and ford play catch up for them to find out oh **** when they went to 900 the 6.7 in marine use was at 1200...
Then bla and blah have 900
We only have 1200
Again i only see 1200
It was funny when cummins had said you asked for more power, and we gave you more power.... I said if you wanted a bigger dick would you be happier if all i gave you was 4/32 of an inch.... and then told you you asked for bigger i gave you bigger.
When people ask for more, they want MORE as in like double or a 3rd more.... I'll never understand why they would want to be on par with the rest and not beyond it
turbodart68
Well-Known Member
A guy pulled into a cruise I was at the other day with a 69 Camaro with a LS9 out of a ZR1 Corvette. Sounded like a Prius looked like a plastic engine cover when he opened the hood because the LS is so ugly you have to cover it with a plastic bag. I just about fell asleep looking at it. BORING. Thanks for the back up Wild.
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