64 barracuda 273

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cudamark said:
The OP's car is said to be a '64 Barracuda, but, I'm guessing you were referring to Jeff's 67. If so, he stated that his has ported J heads on it. My impression is that the OP has access to a '67 273 BBL intake and was considering using it with later heads than what his '64 has. If I'm mistaken, I hope he will correct me and supply some further information.
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"I’m in the start of rebuilding my 64 273 , i have 2 questions is i have 318 heads available with a 4 barrel intake from a 67 barracuda"
I suppose that can be read either way; "I have 318 heads available, with a 4 barrel intake from a 67 barracuda", or "318 heads with a 4 barrel intake from a 67 barracuda".
Funny how much difference a comma could make!
 
W
Shippy said:
I’m in the start of rebuilding my 64 273 , i have 2 questions is i have 318 heads available with a 4 barrel intake from a 67 barracuda
I did not get any numbers off the heads yet but is it worth doing ? and will it increase HP at all ?
Any advice will be helpful
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The way I understand, the combustion chambers are bigger in volume so compression will take a hit. Might be just as well off installing a bit bigger valves and doing some porting to unshroud them.
 
I shaved the heads on my 273 and put a offenhauser intake on and carter 4v and and hi po cam the old 4 speed dart came to life and had plenty of power for me
 
You’d be well served using Doug’s Headers or TTI’s on anything you put back in the engine bay. Otherwise that 4bbl will be pretty much a one way street.
 
What's the goal power and driveability wise?
 
Dan the man said:
No it doesn't. How come all of a sudden here lately you've had a attitude too. Being a moderator aren't you suppose to lead by example? You were not like this until recently.
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You are wearing us out Dan
 
Dan the man said:
318's are easier to get parts ie pistons.
Click to expand...

That is not true. Any decent compression pistons will cost money, 273 or 318. 273 factory pistons are about zero deck with closed chambers till 1967. nothing special needed. If you want more compression, the 10.5:1 Commando/Charger pistons were and are available. I would not run the real cheap 318 pistons with no compression. I never let cost or ease make decisions for what I want to build. All the rest is the same between 273 and 318. I never let ease or cost make my decision for what I want. I know how much power I want and build accordingly.
 
OP; Once again, too many of us are spending your money.
You got a good plan OP, stick to it.
>If you want to have a personal and factual, and pertinent conversation, PM me. Then you will have a solid foundation to work from, and if you don't like what you hear from me, no problems, you can always come back to FABO for a second helping of nonsense; you won't hurt my feelings..
Sad to say, this Forum ain't what it used to be.

> To answer your question;
The 4bbl ain't worth much on an otherwise stock 273; but, it will make a difference, as the rpm climbs past 3000. And almost every modification that you may later make, the 4bbl will amplify the increase.
However; if your car has hiway gears, you may not notice a power increase until the rpm is winding up, cuz the 4bbl, once open, is only averaging maybe 1 to 1.5hp per 100 rpm.

>For you, the biggest bang for the buck is a higher-stall convertor. The stocker is likely around 1700/1800. Personally, I would like a 2800 for this combo, but Ima thinking a 2400 would already be a big improvement.
This modification will launch your car off the line with much more authority than a 4bbl with a stock convertor. Not even a fair comparison. But if you combine them together, you will not be sorry.
as an example of what the convertor does;
suppose your 273 makes;
180 ftpds at 1800 stall. This maths out to 62 hp. OR
Suppose 180 at 2400; which maths out to 82hp. OR
Suppose 180 at 2800, which maths to 96hp.
See why I like the 2800?

>The 4bbl by itself, is only gonna make a couple of hp at 2800 if that. So as you can see, it ain't even a fair thought.
At zero mph, which would you rather have at the ready;
plus 34 hp at 2800 stall, or
plus zero hp at 1800 stall , climbing to plus 2hp at 2800?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
With the 1800 stall;
Unless your tires both spin to get the rpm up and fighting for traction, so that the 4bbl opens, that 4bbl is just along for the 2bbl ride, until somewhere between 25>30 mph with 2.94s, even higher with 2.76s, the more common reargear.
But with the 2800 stall, the rpm, and thus the power, is already up and so the car, even with hiway gears, will blast off pretty nicely.

>> with tires that don't spin, I love the feel of the 2800, . To me, it is very satisfying.
I hear the rpm coming up.
Then I feel the convertor start to engage,
the nose comes up,
the car starts to inch out, and then,
the 4-bbl begins to open, and the car begins to explode into action. With the 4bbl now roaring, and the power climbing, all is right in the world.
Get ready; here comes the shift !
> Well, with 2.94s or less and a 273, it's kindof over, but First gear was fun. Butum hey, with 2.94s, 5000= about 45mph, so what's to complain about? Just stickit into Drive, until the next stoplight.
 
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My Dart started as a slant 6 4-speed I got a 273 and shaved the heads and put dual exhaust on then a 4-barrell with hipo cam and it made a world of difference it was a real runner
 
Why talk about
AJ/FormS said:
OP; Once again, too many of us are spending your money.
You got a good plan OP, stick to it.
>If you want to have a personal and factual, and pertinent conversation, PM me. Then you will have a solid foundation to work from, and if you don't like what you hear from me, no problems, you can always come back to FABO for a second helping of nonsense; you won't hurt my feelings..
Sad to say, this Forum ain't what it used to be.

> To answer your question;
The 4bbl ain't worth much on an otherwise stock 273; but, it will make a difference, as the rpm climbs past 3000. And almost every modification that you may later make, the 4bbl will amplify the increase.
However; if your car has hiway gears, you may not notice a power increase until the rpm is winding up, cuz the 4bbl, once open, is only averaging maybe 1 to 1.5hp per 100 rpm.

>For you, the biggest bang for the buck is a higher-stall convertor. The stocker is likely around 1700/1800. Personally, I would like a 2800 for this combo, but Ima thinking a 2400 would already be a big improvement.
This modification will launch your car off the line with much more authority than a 4bbl with a stock convertor. Not even a fair comparison. But if you combine them together, you will not be sorry.
as an example of what the convertor does;
suppose your 273 makes;
180 ftpds at 1800 stall. This maths out to 62 hp. OR
Suppose 180 at 2400; which maths out to 82hp. OR
Suppose 180 at 2800, which maths to 96hp.
See why I like the 2800?

>The 4bbl by itself, is only gonna make a couple of hp at 2800 if that. So as you can see, it ain't even a fair thought.
At zero mph, which would you rather have at the ready;
plus 34 hp at 2800 stall, or
plus zero hp at 1800 stall , climbing to plus 2hp at 2800?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
With the 1800 stall;
Unless your tires both spin to get the rpm up and fighting for traction, so that the 4bbl opens, that 4bbl is just along for the 2bbl ride, until somewhere between 25>30 mph with 2.94s, even higher with 2.76s, the more common reargear.
But with the 2800 stall, the rpm, and thus the power, is already up and so the car, even with hiway gears, will blast off pretty nicely.

>> with tires that don't spin, I love the feel of the 2800, . To me, it is very satisfying.
I hear the rpm coming up.
Then I feel the convertor start to engage,
the nose comes up,
the car starts to inch out, and then,
the 4-bbl begins to open, and the car begins to explode into action. With the 4bbl now roaring, and the power climbing, all is right in the world.
Get ready; here comes the shift !
> Well, with 2.94s or less and a 273, it's kindof over, but First gear was fun. Butum hey, with 2.94s, 5000= about 45mph, so what's to complain about? Just stickit into Drive, until the next stoplight.
Click to expand...
HP below 3,000 RPM. HP is always low on any engine at those low RPMs. Talk torque at low RPM because that is where torque lives. Probably get a mess of attitude in response, so my response is to get an education under David Vizard.
 
Dale Davies said:
Why talk about

HP below 3,000 RPM. HP is always low on any engine at those low RPMs. Talk torque at low RPM because that is where torque lives. Probably get a mess of attitude in response, so my response is to get an education under David Vizard.
Click to expand...
Excellent choice.

Think about it.
I am a streeter and I'd venture to say that in terms of time spent at low rpm is 90/95% of my driving is below 3000. I have a 4-speed and 3.55s.. Normally, I shift at 2800, for three reasons;
1) cuz my 367 has a preponderance of low-rpm torque on account of the very high cylinder pressure, and
2) it just sounds so doggone good pulling from 2K>3K, and
3) cuz it hits 65=2880 , and then I drop it into overdrive.

Guys will say Horsepower is just a number, a fallout of an equation. While that is true, it's still nonsense. Torque and horsepower are intimately married; as long as the car is moving, you can't have one without the other.

The more cubes your engine has, the more torque it will inherently make, and
the more cylinder pressure it makes, also the more torque it will make, and
To a degree, stroke makes torque.
So in the case of the Mopar SBM, what can be better, than a very high pressure 360? Of the SBMs it has the most cubes, and the longest stroke, and high pressure is just a piston swap away.
 
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AJ/FormS said:
Excellent choice.

Think about it.
I am a streeter and I'd venture to say that in terms of time spent at low rpm is 90/95% of my driving is below 3000. I have a 4-speed and 3.55s.. Normally, I shift at 2800, for three reasons;
1) cuz my 367 has a preponderance of low-rpm torque on account of the very high cylinder pressure, and
2) it just sounds so doggone good pulling from 2K>3K, and
3) cuz it hits 65=2880 , and then I drop it into overdrive.
Click to expand...
You talking part or full throttle shifts?
AJ/FormS said:
Guys will say Horsepower is just a number, a fallout of an equation. While that is true, it's still nonsense. Torque and horsepower are intimately married; as long as the car is moving, you can't have one without the other.
Click to expand...
100%
AJ/FormS said:
The more cubes your engine has, the more torque it will inherently make, and
the more cylinder pressure it makes, also the more torque it will make, and
To a degree, stroke makes torque.
So in the case of the Mopar SBM, what can be better, than a very high pressure 360? Of the SBMs it has the most cubes, and the longest stroke, and high pressure is just a piston swap away.
Click to expand...
 
273 said:
You talking part or full throttle shifts?

100%
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Well, on the torque and HP front, you can have torque without HP, but you can not have HP without torque.
Steam engines and electric motors make their maximum torque at zero RPM. Plug that into your HP calculator.
Large ship engines only run at about 150 RPM maximum. They may produce 50,000 HP. The torque is about 1,750,666 lb/ft. For street bullshit poker, torque is king.
 
Dale Davies said:
Well, on the torque and HP front, you can have torque without HP, but you can not have HP without torque.
Steam engines and electric motors make their maximum torque at zero RPM.
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And they would also do zero work, torque is meaningless without movement, and were dealing with gas engines that always make power while running. For us it's all about power, and yes there's two NA ways to get there more torque and or carrying it to higher rpms.
Dale Davies said:
Plug that into your HP calculator.
Large ship engines only run at about 150 RPM maximum. They may produce 50,000 HP. The torque is about 1,750,666 lb/ft. For street bullshit poker, torque is king.
Click to expand...
It's about putting more average power to the ground over a time frame.

Don't get this insistence on making it torque vs hp when it's more about horsepower and which best ratio of torque and rpm to get there for the application.
 
When AJ goes on about gears stall etc.. He's trying to get the OP use more of the power already provided by the engine, get more of the stock engines average power to the ground.
 
Whether it be a 273,318,360, myself I'm interested in improving throttle response and low to midrange torque. From what research that I've done most engines that are operated on the street are mostly from off idle to around 4,800 rpm's tops. I don't know this as fact nor from experience.
 
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