'65 cuda 273 car info neeeded

[barbee6043]

I traded for a 65 273 cuda, totally apart. I've got into this before, but years ago it was with putting back together e body, 68-70 b body , 70 duster. yes the guy takes EVERYTHING apart, takes off glove box door, latch out of it etc. I have 63 and 65 darts i'm building, slant cars, have a 65 dart shop manual. have access to 65 dart and cuda, 273 motors in them ,, missing some stuff there.
I did search on here for 273 info but nothing really comes up pertinent for it. shop manual confusing and I realize there was different things going on between models, A and B body back in that era, cable shift tranny carb, carb and tranny linkages,,, etc. AND yes I will get pics posted when I get it drug home! LOL
I noticed this, car has original cable operated gas pedal, and cable thru firewall. ( engine isn't in there), in a bo0x was a rod operated kickdown. in another 65 cuda parts car, there sits a cable operated tranny. my car was console car, auto, has 7 1/4 , I understand a 273 2 bbl motor could have come wioth this rear... what i'm wondering is what came on the 273 2 bbl, cable tranny??? I assume cable operated throttle??? the consol
e shift car, could it have been rod actuated???? I think not.....
its a great body, has new seat covers installed, new carpet, , gas tank, rebuilt front end, brakes, but car is a part. the guy my buddy got it from was going to put in big block, he stripped it to bare metal and let it sit, LOL,
so has surface rust starting.....
question: 65 cuda 273 2 bbl motor, was the tranny a 727 or 904??? trunnion style????? cable operated tranny ( console shift),
another question: I read on here somewhere the 273 had 4 bbl intakes, where it bolt pattern were the same, but some had different angles for the bolts?? so if I changed over to a 4 bbl intake, a 65 engine needs intake for that particular motor????? if so does anyone know what casting numbers I would be hunting???
thanks for any info.... no one said ma mopar made it easy!??? LOL maybe after its done, paint FIAT on the qtr!? LOL

 

[cosgig]

Well, the rod actuated throttle assembly found is a 6 cylinder unit, the correct V8 setup is the cable operated unit already installed!

As for the trans, in 65 the trans would be a 904 cable operated park mechanism and shift, with a ball and trunnion tail shaft! The 66 year did away with all of that!

As for the 4 bbl?? The 65 was the first year for the 4bbl 273, and although I'm not positive of the facts, I believe all of the early 65's had the different bolt angle for the intake, but I believe there was a change made sometime in 65 to the more common later angle! Don't know what that date is, but an early casting 65 4 bbl intake is gonna be hard to find! I think there is an option just mentioned on site here where you can Waller out the bolt holes and use a washer to use the later intakes!

Hope this all helps some!! Geof

 

[65cudalover]

Way to go 65 Formula S in my driveway and I had a 66 prior to this one that used to go down the track low 12's before a fool hit it many years ago! I will tell you a few things, first all are 904 trans simple and run good when built right. My current one was set up for potential drag strip but probably will never go there after several years ago I had battle with Epilepsy and it sat for 2 years. I got lucky and had brain surgery, now seizure free and driving again but just utilize my barracuda for shows and fun. It has a 318 and is set up for driving. Modernized with front disc brakes, dual brake fluid. Also electronic mopar ignition system and modern u joint drive shaft no ball trunnion anymore! If it is not number matching set up I would say do want as its money value is low. I have way more into my car than its worth and still want to do body and paint! Mine has been on a rotisserie so body is great underneath no rust, has mopar rally wheels with nice 14 big rubber! Originally had 14' hubcap wheels. I just like to make mine a fun road runner and love driving it around getting people to pull up asking what the heck is that car! I go to shows and local events usually never see another early a body barracuda, last year at a mopar club show here in Chicagoland we had 3 together and it was so cool all of us were laughing! If you want to do the 273 good luck its more difficult to do and less parts around now I had one but we decided to do a 318 as it wasn't the numbers matching motor and there is so much more Hp available in it. Also we painted it to look like the 273 used the valve covers from the original motor and air cleaner so almost all who look at it think it is a 273 and I just smile! It has run a 14.5 at the track so I also smile when someone wants to go for it at a light! Its quick enough for me and runs on regular gas! So for now it will be my big boy toy! Good luck and keep it going as they are few and far between!

65cudalover

 

[65cuda360]

Looks like they answered everything above. A few things I will add, The ball and trunion driveshafts were also used behind Hemis, and can be rebuilt with a kit that is still available, no need to change if you have the 904 flange trans. The shift cables can be replaced by a single cable and a kit.

 

[barbee6043]

thanks for the replies. the 273 that was in the cuda is supposed to have been a good one, but like I said, the PO loved to take everything apart, he pulled the heads, timing chain, etc, he was going to replace it with big block. so I plan to stay with the 273. there is a cable operated 904 there I can pull. probably stay with the t runion, if need to , will change over to the hybrid joint. hard to believe, they used the 7 1/4 behind the 273 ieven if a lower compression 2 bbl motor!?
I have to get seal for back window glass. I guess Layson's would be one place to look. or does soft seal make them?? I have to shop around..

I like the early A's, to be they have character and "cool"! LOL

 

[BillGrissom]

The intake bolts were ~16 deg off vertical in the early 273's. They later changed to 45 deg and larger diameter. I forgot the year, but you can find it in a search (66 or 67?). A few years ago, I modified a later 45 deg Edelbrock 4 bbl intake to work in my 273, but I don't recommend. I just used a large drill bit in a hand drill to V the holes and bought special flat-head 7/16" bolts (V bottom). However, the allen holes are kind of small so afraid they might round off some day. I got a slight water hissing at the front cross-over at first, but tightening fixed it. Soon after, I saw a correct alum intake on ebay that went for ~$150. A month or so ago, I happened to run across another, so got it fairly cheap ($105). Certainly many others were listed that I never saw. Take your time and you can get a correct intake.

I think the valve body in your 65 is unique. It is the only cable-shift with the now-standard pattern P-R-N-D-2-1 (federal mandate). My 65 C-body tranny is even more unique - cable-shift w/ sliding yoke output. You can still get the ball & trunion front U-joint. I posted all the cross PN's last year (search). If you search those once in a while on ebay, you may get a hit. I bought several GMB PN's for <$70. One seller usually has a set listed for ~$150. Some people change to an in-line sliding yoke, which Jeep guys pioneered (used the same U-joint). Some trucks & vans also used it. It is sturdy. Have a kit on the shelf and don't worry. I read that a VW rear axle boot (2-piece repair) can replace the rubber.

 

[bmw88rider]

An easy way to see which style of intake manifold you have is to look at the heads casting numbers. If they end with 315, it's the early ones. If it ends in 920, it's the later ones.

The correct edelbrock intake for the 315 heads is the D4B.

For the transmission, Another thing to note, it's a different spline count on the torque converter than the later ones as well.

I also liked the floor shifter that the 65's had. I have a cool one with a tach on it. Can't use it with my 66 through.

 

[krazykuda]

64 was the last year for the pushbutton shifters.

65 was unique as it still had the cable shift trans and a "regular" type shifter.


The heads with the unique bolts were the 64 & 65's.


66 was the first year of the "newer" style bolt pattern/angle for the intakes and the linkage shift transmissions.


If you want to use the "standard" type intakes, you can just interchange the heads with 66 and later 273/318 heads and then go with the "standard" intakes available if you are not going for a period correct resto.

 

[barbee6043]

thanks for the info. I always enjoys learning about a "new" car!.. the PO had a rebuilt 4 speed he was going to drop in, but the guy I got it from had sold it off. he didn't have any of the multitude of other parts needed, I've chanded over a few duster to sticks few yrs ago. I don't mind the work, but the parts can be pricey no doubt, and I know from experience it realy helps to have a complete donor car! LOL probably just stay with the auto. getting to the age my knees are startin to be weak! last week I thought my brain was getting weak too!!???? LOL
I know Layson is a sponsor here so I try to do business with those guys, but I still have to shop price too. I do have their cat disc. PO pulled all the trim, he has boxes of screws and clips, but I doubt the clips would be good. hopefully I can find new CORRECT or usable clips.
I will post pics when I get it home.

 

[amx364]

You do know that if you switch the heads to later 318 heads a later(common) intake will fit. Watch out for big valves with a 273, most will not work well.

 

[barbee6043]

does anyone know the cast number for the 4 bbl intake that fits the early #315 head??? I realize lots of options, got several other 65 2 bbl 273's cores to work off too. or drop in 318-360 and add some 273 commando finned covers. I figure the 4bbl setup with 500 cfm edelbrock (stock 2 bbl motor), will get good mileage if I keep my foot out of it!
my darts are slants and I love foolin with them no doubt, but I will do the s b in this cuda.
this cuda was originally yellow with gold int. totally straight, no rust, pefrect interior, not a fan of the yellow, not a purist so I can change the color and still sleep at night, not sure what color I will make it. great candidate for black, but my 63 dart was originally black,....... always liked white car.s.... will have to study the "show me your early cudas" deal!??? oh such decisions!???

 

[B-onefan]

thanks for the replies. the 273 that was in the cuda is supposed to have been a good one, but like I said, the PO loved to take everything apart, he pulled the heads, timing chain, etc, he was going to replace it with big block. so I plan to stay with the 273. there is a cable operated 904 there I can pull. probably stay with the t runion, if need to , will change over to the hybrid joint. hard to believe, they used the 7 1/4 behind the 273 ieven if a lower compression 2 bbl motor!?
I have to get seal for back window glass. I guess Layson's would be one place to look. or does soft seal make them?? I have to shop around..

I like the early A's, to be they have character and "cool"! LOL

Sometime in 65, they did start putting the 8 3/4 rearend behind the 273/ 2bbl 4 speed cars. Seems they were tearing up the 7 1/4 too much. The auto cars still could have the 7 1/4.

 

[B-onefan]

Did I miss the pictures of the new Barracuda?

 

[barbee6043]

its not home yet. will send pics soon as i get it, pretty excited to have a solid car to work on even if someone took EVERYTHING apart! I've done 2 other cars like that (apart) years ago. sucks. buddy has bone cars but 150 mi trip too.

 

[B-onefan]

its not home yet. will send pics soon as i get it, pretty excited to have a solid car to work on even if someone took EVERYTHING apart! I've done 2 other cars like that (apart) years ago. sucks. buddy has bone cars but 150 mi trip too.

bone cars? The last 3 I bought were taken apart already. I kinda like that, so I don't feel so bad pulling apart a complete car and then taking so long to get it back together. This way, I can do the body work, paint it and then start putting it together. I guess that gets the taking apart and looking worse with everything you remove and find hidden things you didn't see or plan on, out of the equation, and goes to the satisfaction of adding new stuff and making it better with every step. Probably all mental on my part, but whatever works.

 

[65 Dartman]

Sometime in 65, they did start putting the 8 3/4 rearend behind the 273/ 2bbl 4 speed cars. Seems they were tearing up the 7 1/4 too much. The auto cars still could have the 7 1/4.

My 65 273-2 barrel 4 speed Barracuda built Mar 23rd, 65 still has the 7 1/4 in it. I parted out a 65 Dart GT originally equipped with the 274/4 barrel built Jul22, 65 and it had the 8.75

 

[barbee6043]

you have a point, at least I see exactly whats solid, straight. etc. my problem is when I take it apart, I have method of keeping up with screws, nuts, bolts, etc. The engine, if it runs good, why mess with it and take it apart. LOL
yes the mental thing!? maybe us car guys are nuts!!! LOL fact is with me, when I work on the car and make even just the smallest, slightest progress, or fix the most minisquel problem,,, I feel like I just conquered the world!!! JUST think how nuts I could go to fix something really BIG!!!!! LOL
over the years messing with these things I have found the hardest car to sell is one someone took apart and parts are everywhere!!!! most people want a car they can drive AND workon. rust free, all there..... unless they have the $$$$ to be one done....... then they want to buy it for pennies on the dollar! LOL

 

[2 Darts]

I understand a 273 2 bbl motor could have come wioth this rear...

52 5/8" flange to flange (8.75 axle)

what i'm wondering is what came on the 273 2 bbl, cable tranny???

Probably a 7¼"

I assume cable operated throttle??? Yes

the console shift car, could it have been rod actuated????

Not with the partial console.

question: 65 cuda 273 2 bbl motor, was the tranny a 727 or 904???

In all likelihood, it was a 904. A car equipped with the cop or taxi package might have a 727. I haven't seen a 727 on a slant six that cop car or taxi package wasn't also part of the car.

trunnion style?????

Yep. 65 was the last year for the trunnion style. It's possible that yours might not have a B&T if someone has swapped it out.

cable operated tranny ( console shift)

Yes. Here's the cable. http://www.imperialservices.net/Aparts.html

another question: I read on here somewhere the 273 had 4 bbl intakes, where it bolt pattern were the same, but some had different angles for the bolts??

The different intake bolt angles were gone by late 65. I had a very early 66 that had the normal intake bolt angles.

so if I changed over to a 4 bbl intake, a 65 engine needs intake for that particular motor?????

It's more like the intake needs to match up with the cylinder heads. 66 & later cylinder heads will not work with a 65 and earlier manifold. The later cylinder heads will work with most aftermarket intakes.

if so does anyone know what casting numbers I would be hunting???

The 64-65 cylinder head used casting # 2465315 - have the odd bolt intake angle

Any of the 66-67 LA heads would work without reducing compression ratio if you wanted to use a 66-67 4 bbl Mopar intake. Other manifold choices for the small port LA heads would include the Edelbrock Performer or Weiand Action +

 

[barbee6043]

thanks for the info...... learning process for sure. I had Galien's parts book from many years ago and lost it, probably didn't include this early stuff anyway. I've had lots of 318 and 360's, the 273 is new to me.
stepping into a project someone started has its challenges! LOL. word is it was little ole lady's car. headliner looks original and is perfect. hopefully low mile engine, .... ( thankyou numb-nuts for taking it half apart! LOL)

 

[pishta]

My "S" auto was an April Fools day car (!) and it had a 7.25. Nothing wrong with B&T driveshaft or cable operated trans. I have never seen a 65 A with a 727, taxi or police. They dont fit without some sheetmetal clearancing. I pounded a 3.23 7.25 SG for almost 6 months with a 68 340 with 10 inch wide tires and finally blew it up, they are pretty tough behind an auto with the SG pig, and I did it by coasting backwards out of a driveway and doing a neutral drop into first and hammering it. Probably would have blew most rears that way. Trans changed in 67: convertor snout got bigger so be careful when you start mixing and matching motors and convertors. I succesfully used a performer intake on a 315 head by hogging out the bolt holes and using a hardened washer under the bolt. 30 lbs lighter than the cast iron single plane.