Is there anywhere besides Year One to get a new or maybe a refurbished dash harness for my 65 Valiant 4 door? I can't seem to figure out whats wrong with mine eventhough I've gone through all the wires I could.
65 Valiant Sedan dash harness
- Thread starter wh23g3g
- Start date
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Many times it is the fuse block getting rusty. I had to clean all the terminals for the fuses at one point.
If you wires arent cracked and shorting out, then if it is just the instruments not working, then other times it is the old Mopar dash voltage regulator going bad (if it is your guages) needing to be replaced by the IC 3-pronged voltage regulator to be soldered on.
If you wires arent cracked and shorting out, then if it is just the instruments not working, then other times it is the old Mopar dash voltage regulator going bad (if it is your guages) needing to be replaced by the IC 3-pronged voltage regulator to be soldered on.
It doesnt start with the key and all the electronics are new. Switch, relay, regulator, ballast, alternator, starter, engine harness. I've probed every wire from the switch to the bulkhead connector and it all gets power with the key turned to run. As well as all the wires on the outside of the bulkhead connector. The only wire that didn't get power was the small one from the starter to the solenoid. When I had the key turned that wire didn't light up the test light. But all the other connections lit the test light up. I can only try to start it by arcing the relay with a screwdriver. This is the second starter relay I've tried too. The battery cables are new too as well as that wire from the starter to the solenoid terminal on the relay. It has soldered ends too, not crimped. Plus the oil light doesn't light up except when you turn the key from On to Off, only in between there it flickers. That is so annoying. I can't even figure it out. But the oil light bulb is not getting power from the dash to the bulkhead connector. I even removed the tape from that whole area of the harness to look for frayed or broken wires and found nothing. I even cleaned the ground cable for the battery and on the block and nothing changed. I jumped the NSS at the relay and nothing changed. With a new harness I know it should work.
M & H may be able to help with a new wiring harness. They made the engine compartment harness for my 65.
Below is part of a thread I had on FABO a couple of months ago with contact information.
Good luck
@font-face { font-family: "Cambria"; }p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal { margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman"; }a:link, span.MsoHyperlink { color: blue; text-decoration: underline; }a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { color: purple; text-decoration: underline; }div.Section1 { page: Section1; } Now, back to the battery cable the old cable was routed from the starter forward to the front (radiator side) of the shock tower and up to the battery. The repo cable, because of the length and location of wrapping could only be routed behind (firewall side) the shock tower and then to the battery. I debated with myself and was almost convinced to just leave like that until I referenced my other 3 Barracudas. (now I own a 66 to restore with its parts car and the 65 parts car) All 3, plus looking at pictures of other cars showed the cable routing in front of the shock tower, not behind it. My show quality - will not be disappointed cable didnt look right nor fit correctly and too expensive not to. But there seemed no other option.
Ah.. but it turns out there is another option and a much better one at that. M & H Electric Fabricators, Inc in Santa Fe Springs, CA can reproduce a correct positive battery cable for your car.
The web address: (www.wiringharness.com) But you wont have much success navigating M &Hs web page for battery cables. Most inquires throw you back to Year One as M & Hs exclusive and only distributor. Yet you cannot find a 65 Barracuda positive battery cable listed by Year One.
I finally gave up on the web page and called them (562) 926-9552) and talked to Robert Wallace, one of the most knowledgeable humans on the subject of automotive wiring. I gave him the Chrysler part number as found in my 65 parts book (2587178). ( note: part number 2587178 was stamped on the remains of my original cable as well) He confirmed they could build the cable to specifications derived from original factory technical drawings and the cable was set-up in their system as part number 35230. The cable would have the correct woven insulation on the starter end as the original.
Below is part of a thread I had on FABO a couple of months ago with contact information.
Good luck
@font-face { font-family: "Cambria"; }p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal { margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman"; }a:link, span.MsoHyperlink { color: blue; text-decoration: underline; }a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { color: purple; text-decoration: underline; }div.Section1 { page: Section1; } Now, back to the battery cable the old cable was routed from the starter forward to the front (radiator side) of the shock tower and up to the battery. The repo cable, because of the length and location of wrapping could only be routed behind (firewall side) the shock tower and then to the battery. I debated with myself and was almost convinced to just leave like that until I referenced my other 3 Barracudas. (now I own a 66 to restore with its parts car and the 65 parts car) All 3, plus looking at pictures of other cars showed the cable routing in front of the shock tower, not behind it. My show quality - will not be disappointed cable didnt look right nor fit correctly and too expensive not to. But there seemed no other option.
Ah.. but it turns out there is another option and a much better one at that. M & H Electric Fabricators, Inc in Santa Fe Springs, CA can reproduce a correct positive battery cable for your car.
The web address: (www.wiringharness.com) But you wont have much success navigating M &Hs web page for battery cables. Most inquires throw you back to Year One as M & Hs exclusive and only distributor. Yet you cannot find a 65 Barracuda positive battery cable listed by Year One.
I finally gave up on the web page and called them (562) 926-9552) and talked to Robert Wallace, one of the most knowledgeable humans on the subject of automotive wiring. I gave him the Chrysler part number as found in my 65 parts book (2587178). ( note: part number 2587178 was stamped on the remains of my original cable as well) He confirmed they could build the cable to specifications derived from original factory technical drawings and the cable was set-up in their system as part number 35230. The cable would have the correct woven insulation on the starter end as the original.
The gauges seem to work. However, the engine does not start up because it's been sitting for so long. It only starts up when you give it a shot of starting fluid. But I also replaced the distributor so I think the timing may be a little off. It back fired through the carb with just a little flame, but not bad. I also have rebuilt the carb and verfiy it's getting a good shot of gas when you push the pedal in. I just wanted to get the key switch problem solved first so then I can get the engine cranked and running right. The only thing that doesn't work in the car is the radio and the heater. The light on the radio comes on but there's no noise. It did work when we bench tested it. But it might be because I don't have an antenna hooked up. The heater doesn't turn on at all. All the other lights and gauges work besides the oil light. I disconnected the NSS wire from the relay, the ground terminal, and put a jumper from there to a ground. Nothing changed. I had my father turn the key to start while I probed the relay with a test light. It's getting power at the big stud, the yellow wire, but not the solenoid wire going from the relay to the starter. But it's a new wire. It's a reman starter, but could it be bad?
yes it is entirely possible for a reman to be bad, but it sounds like yours is working fine if it turns over when both lugs get power.
I did a quickie search and found another thread about this same car, you really should continue a thread instead a starting a new one. That way people know what has already been tried and suggested. It doesn't say but, why did the ignition switch get replaced?
here is a good one diagnosing a start relay
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=177111&highlight=starter+relay
I did a quickie search and found another thread about this same car, you really should continue a thread instead a starting a new one. That way people know what has already been tried and suggested. It doesn't say but, why did the ignition switch get replaced?
here is a good one diagnosing a start relay
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=177111&highlight=starter+relay
It was suggessted that I replace the ignition switch by a mechanic. But it didn't change anything. I've replaced the relay 3 times now under warranty. I doubt I've gotten 3 bad ones in a row. I've tried starting in ever gear and everywhere in between but nothing happens when you turn the key. The relay doesn't click when you turn the key, there is aboslutely no sound at all when you turn the key.
Krazymofugger
Well-Known Member
I had a '66 Dart a while back with the same problem (if I remember correctly), and in the end my voltage gauge was the problem. I figured it out by bypassing the gauge with a long wire going from the positive lug on the alternator to the positive terminal on the battery. This was temporary for the test, but it did confirm that the voltage gauge was the issue.
I checked the voltage gauge and it's getting power from the battery. I also swapped it out with a known good unit. I also verified that my connections to the alternator were good. I tested the alternator before reinstalling it. The external voltage regulator on the firewall is also brand new. I'm still thinking it's got a ground issue somewhere. I just don't know where after I already disconnected the NSS switch wire from the relay and ran a jumper to a good ground, nothing happened.
When in doubt about something being ground add ground wires. I could be wrong but I think the body of the starter relay needs to be grounded, so if the body of the car is not grounded it might not work. How many grounds do you have?
There was a ground that looked like it was added on over near the transmission dipstick, its a 65 Valiant 170. With one end bolted through a bellhousing bolt and the other end bolted to the blower fan mountain stud. I just have the eyelet loosley hanging on the blower fan stud, not bolted down tight. I just wanted to see if that made a difference but it didnt. That's the only ground there is under the hood. Except of course for the negative cable to the block, which I went back and really cleaned good to shiny metal. The cable is new. I have a ground strap on my 73 Charger that was original that ran from the firewall to the intake manifold. Should a 65 170 Valiant have one too? If so where should it be located?
Yes it a 1965 valiant should have a ground strap.
Originally I believe it was from the back of the engine to the firewall. However unless you are going for resto show perfect that doesn't matter. Run a ground from the same point the battery ground attaches to the engine to body. Really you can't have too many ground wires. Remember the engine is mounted in rubber the motor mounts do NOT ground the engine to the chassis. And since your battery ground goes to the engine all power in the car has to find a path to the engine block to acquire a ground source.
I would run some wires from the battery neg post to the body of the starter relay and voltage regulator. Clean the firewall where the two units bolt on and then bolt the wires down to the body using the existing bolts. Also is your instrument panel screwed to the dash? The instrument panel is only grounded by the 4 mounting screws, so gauge function can't truly be tested with the panel hanging by the wiring.
Originally I believe it was from the back of the engine to the firewall. However unless you are going for resto show perfect that doesn't matter. Run a ground from the same point the battery ground attaches to the engine to body. Really you can't have too many ground wires. Remember the engine is mounted in rubber the motor mounts do NOT ground the engine to the chassis. And since your battery ground goes to the engine all power in the car has to find a path to the engine block to acquire a ground source.
I would run some wires from the battery neg post to the body of the starter relay and voltage regulator. Clean the firewall where the two units bolt on and then bolt the wires down to the body using the existing bolts. Also is your instrument panel screwed to the dash? The instrument panel is only grounded by the 4 mounting screws, so gauge function can't truly be tested with the panel hanging by the wiring.
Krazymofugger
Well-Known Member
I was thinking there is a fuseable link going from the starter relay (bolted to the fire wall) to the bulkhead connector. I think that's why that is the only wire there that does not have a plastic connection. I say this because the only thing not working is the starter, right? It looks like a regular wire, but I am pretty sure that it's a fuseable link.
I'm going to try and clean the areas where the electronics mount. It definitely isn't a show car and won't ever be. I did however, spray the engine bay with a close match color to the original. So I may need to clean behind the firewall mounting screws. The printed circuit board on the back of the gauge cluster is the ground for the gauges. It's secure there shouldn't be any issues there. It's clean metal. It does have a fusible link going from the stud on the relay to the bulkhead connector. I had a nice one made until I get it started then I will put on the original correct one. I pulled an original one off of a 64 Valiant because Year One didn't have a new one like it. I checked that too and it's getting battery power. The other end of the fusible link screws onto a blade terminal coming out of the bulkhead connector then it runs straight to the Ammeter.
Yes the printed circuit board is the ground for the gauges, but the board does not have a ground wire from the factory. It grounds through the 4 screws that hold the panel to the dash.
If your fuse link was bad you shouldn't have power to anything in the car other than the starter main lug.
If your fuse link was bad you shouldn't have power to anything in the car other than the starter main lug.
Ok I went over to where my Valiant was yesterday to try and figure anything else about why it won't start with the key. I tried running a ground to the starter relay body and nothing changed. I tried running a ground to the alternator voltage regulator and nothing changed. I did notice that one screw hole where the alternator regulator mounts was stripped out oversize so one side doesn't tighten up. I tested the voltage regulator. Of course my battery had been worn down a little by cranking it over with the screwdriver on the relay. I have two instrument voltage regulators. One of them was reading close to 12 volts, like 11.89, and then on the second part of the test it went from .5-5.5 volts, which according to the 65 Plymouth service guide is still good. But I don't know if it didn't read 12 volts because the battery was worn down. The other spare regulator I had didn't read any volts on the first part of the test but still read about .5-5.5 volts on the second part. I did notice that my gauges weren't moving at all when I turned the power on. They were working the last time I was over there, at least the fuel gauge was. I had an extra condenser mounted in with the voltage limiter that someone told me was for the fuel gauge. But I don't actually show it in any illustrations or wiring diagrams for a 65 Valiant. Is it supposse to have two on the back of the instrument cluster? There's another test I can do with the instrument panel installed, by probing the temp gauge. I tested yesterday with the spare gauge cluster I had and just removed the voltage limiter I had on mine that was installed. I'm still baffled at why absolutley nothing happens when you turn the key but everything I probe shows power when that key is turned, except that brown wire from the small stud on the starter to the SOL location on the relay. But the wire is new and has nice soldered ends. Can anyone tell me what wires do I need to verify have power when the ignition key is turned to start? Maybe I'm missing a wire that I didn't test. Also knowing that gauges don't work does that tell you anything? I still havent been able to figure out why the oil light just flickers between the OFF and ON position on the key switch, but does nothing when in the RUN position.
Ok I checked the instrument voltage limiter on the back of the dash and it's working right. But I did notice that the gauges aren't working. I talked to a mechanic around here and he said on the old Chryslers like this it was always a problem with the voltage gauge. I notice the needle on mine doesn't move at all when I turn the key to ON. I think I did verify that it was getting power to both sides of the gauge with the key on. I will re-verify this weekend. I do know that was the only two wires I had splice in from my donor harness because my original harness had those wires melted. The gauge is from another Valiant, but I soldered the wires together on this donor harness. This mechanic told me to put both of the wires going to the voltage gauge on one stud, either side, and see if that works. Won't that cause a big spark? What is that going to do? What are you doing when you strike the starter relay with a screwdriver? What is that bypassing? I'm just stumped because all ground connections are clean and shiny and everything has power that I think should have power.
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