67 Dart 273 timing issue

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67dart_drop_top

67dart_drop_top

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Good Saturday morning everyone. I thought I had a timing issue a few months back, and now I am seeking help. I would have asked sooner, but I pulled the engine, painted the engine bay, painted the engine, and polished or painted every nut, bolt, part and piece. I am ready to drop the engine back in the car.

While I had the engine out, I checked the timing chain. It is tight, a double roller, and the dots matched up the way they were supposed to. When I place it on number one compression stroke, the timing mark is also at TDC; however, the distributor is in e 5:00 position and not the 6:00 position.

Anyone have any suggestions

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67dart_drop_top said:
When I place it on number one compression stroke, the timing mark is also at TDC; however, the distributor is in e 5:00 position and not the 6:00 position.
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The rotor should point toward the front intake bolt on the "odd side" when at TDC compression stoke, that pic of the firing order is a bit deceiving.
 
If you pull the distributor and want to re-position the gear, just stick a screwdriver in the slot in the top of the gear and twist. (one way or the other but I can't remember which way). That will walk the gear out of the cam gear and advance it one tooth when it disengages. If you need to, just continue walking it around until you get it in the correct position. Yes, the rotor should point to the furthest foreward intake bolt on the drivers side.
 
It will not move on it's own. You have to pull the distributor, put a large screwdriver in the distributor drive gear slot and turn it one notch, then drop the distributor back in.
 
Theoretically it doesnt matter where rotor points when at #1 compression tdc. Wherever the rotor points to just make sure the matching tower/nipple feeds #1 spark plug wire and continue with firing order clockwise.
 
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I can move it to two positions. First, to the 4:00 position as before. Or second, I can move it to the 7:00 position. The end of the distributor is flat and fits into a slit that is five sided. The five sided part slides into the cam. I cannot point the distributor toward the first drivers side intake bolt. I can freely turn the gear once I pop it up with a screw driver.
 
Well dang it, that is what my dad and I argued about for over an hour. Anyone want to argue with my dad? 4spddragtop and I are on the other side, but I had a hard time arguing with my dad since the car seemed to be having timing issues???
 
Put a screwdriver in that gear, turn it to pop it up and rotate it 1 tooth and drop it back in. It will probably be exactly where you want it.
 
duster360 said:
Put a screwdriver in that gear, turn it to pop it up and rotate it 1 tooth and drop it back in. It will probably be exactly where you want it.
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That is what I thought, but it is not a gear. It is a five sided stud that drops into the oil pump. It can either go into either the four or seven o'clock positions. Or other positions that are way off.
 
67dart_drop_top said:
That is what I thought, but it is not a gear. It is a five sided stud that drops into the oil pump. It can either go into either the four or seven o'clock positions. Or other positions that are way off.
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I am fairly certain, that in the next five minutes, I will be dropping it into the four position and putting my wires in the correct position according to the "new"distributor position.
 
OK, look!!!

1...It does not matter. You an "toss" the distributor gear in there, with your eyes closed, and "toss" the distributor in there one of two ways, and THAT does not matter. Bring the engine up on no1 compression and put the no 1 wire in "wherever" the rotor points

2...YOU CAN CHANGE the gear. It is a HELIX (helical) If you put a great big screwdriver in there AND IF it is not all sludged up and gummed up, you can turn the screwdriver, and the incline of the gear helix will "walk" the gear/ shaft up out of mesh with the two gears. you can then "walk" it around where you want and drop it back in

3...."By the book" is fine IF THE DISTRIBUTOR tang is where it "belongs" in ref. to the rotor. SOME DISTRIBUTORS are different.

4....It does not matter if no1 is on compression or no6, either way "by the book" the GEAR SLOT should point to the left front intake bolt

THIS IS ONLY BECAUSE AND NO OTHER REASONS:

A....So the factory assemblers can "rinse, repeat."

B.....So the plug wires "lay" nice as designed

C.....So mechanics "see" what they expect to see

Some "stuff"

No start, fresh rebuild, help anyone?

What "the book" says:

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And the oil pump lining up with the hex on the end of the shaft is the only thing stopping the shaft from going all the way down at ANY position you want it at.
A slight turn of the crankshaft and it'll drop right in wherever you want it.
Turn it back to TDC and see if that's what you want.

But like already mentioned, it makes ZERO difference as long as your firing order of the wires starts where the rotor is pointing on the distributor cap.
 
67dart_drop_top said:
The reason I pulled the motor was to check to make sure the timing did not jump. Cleaning the engine and bay were secondary.
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67dart_drop_top said:
That is what I thought, but it is not a gear. It is a five sided stud that drops into the oil pump. It can either go into either the four or seven o'clock positions. Or other positions that are way off.
Click to expand...
duster360 said:
Put a screwdriver in that gear, turn it to pop it up and rotate it 1 tooth and drop it back in. It will probably be exactly where you want it.
Click to expand...
toolmanmike said:
If you pull the distributor and want to re-position the gear, just stick a screwdriver in the slot in the top of the gear and twist. (one way or the other but I can't remember which way). That will walk the gear out of the cam gear and advance it one tooth when it disengages. If you need to, just continue walking it around until you get it in the correct position. Yes, the rotor should point to the furthest forward intake bolt on the drivers side.
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You apparently didn't read my post or the others for that matter. If having the rotor lined up as per the manual is important to you and it is not where it needs to be, the above posts tell you how to move it without removing the gear from the block. A bump of the starter and the hex on the oil pump end will fall into place if that's a issue.
 
I read the posts. I even did what the posts suggested. I moved the distributor shaft at least five times. It just did not drop where I wanted. I am not sure what lead you to believe I did not read the posts. Nobody even suggested bumping the starter/crank. And wouldn't that move me from TDC?

So line me up for some flaming, because now I have another question. Since the shaft drops into the oil pump, can't the oil pump be removed, and then reposition it to line up the distributor where I want it? I have never removed one, so I do not know?
 
67dart_drop_top said:
I read the posts. I even did what the posts suggested. I moved the distributor shaft at least five times. It just did not drop where I wanted. I am not sure what lead you to believe I did not read the posts. Nobody even suggested bumping the starter/crank. And wouldn't that move me from TDC?

So line me up for some flaming, because now I have another question. Since the shaft drops into the oil pump, can't the oil pump be removed, and then reposition it to line up the distributor where I want it? I have never removed one, so I do not know?
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Reread #18
There are about 18 teeth on that oilpump drive ( I actually forget how many exactly), and so there are 18 different positions that you can put the rotor. But when you pull up that shaft,turn it one tooth,and then try to drop it back down, it hangs up on the top of the oilpump, which does not have 18 corresponding flats. In order for the drive to re-enter the pump, the cam has to be rotated, while simultaneously pushing down on the drive. Since the cam is chained to the crank, you have to turn the crank. Then,POP!, down it goes . Then, as TrailBeast said, you just back up the crank, back to TDC, and verify that the rotor is where you want it to be.
If it is not, then you start over.
Without a helper, this is easiest to accomplish by bumping the engine over with the starter using a remote starter tool.
If you get lost, just put the engine back to TDC #1, on compression.

There is one very good reason to line it up per the factory way; the distributor has a very limited range of turning, before the vacuum advance can hits either the firewall or the coil. So with the rotor correctly oriented, and a reluctor tooth aligned with the magnetic trigger, then the rotor will align under #1 tower,if so marked, and then the factory wires all fit. The rotor can be in any other position, which is OK, and can be made to work, but then the wires may not all fit. That is the big reason to set it up per the factory way; so the factory wires fit.Well that, and so the next guy to take the cap off doesn't freak!lol
 
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67dart_drop_top said:
I read the posts. I even did what the posts suggested. I moved the distributor shaft at least five times. It just did not drop where I wanted. I am not sure what lead you to believe I did not read the posts. Nobody even suggested bumping the starter/crank. And wouldn't that move me from TDC?

So line me up for some flaming, because now I have another question. Since the shaft drops into the oil pump, can't the oil pump be removed, and then reposition it to line up the distributor where I want it? I have never removed one, so I do not know?
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No No No. Leave the oil pump alone. The gear drives off the camshaft and turns the oil pump below and the distributor above. The distributor has to be timed with the camshaft. Simple as that. The oil pump doesn't have to be timed with anything. It is just driven by the hex on the end of the shaft.
 
toolmanmike said:
No No No. Leave the oil pump alone. The gear drives off the camshaft and turns the oil pump below and the distributor above. The distributor has to be timed with the camshaft. Simple as that. The oil pump doesn't have to be timed with anything. It is just driven by the hex on the end of the shaft.
Click to expand...

Exactly, but I think what he is saying, is he gets the distributor slot where it needs to be, and it won't drop into the oil pump and stay lined up.
 
All you need to do if the gear won't drop all the way is bump the starter or otherwise turn the engine a little bit. You are right you will have to wrench or bump it back to TDC.
 
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