69 ignition problem???

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69DARTWANTED

69DARTWANTED

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Hey all.

I'm chasing my tail on an electrical issue and could use some help.

This is actually on a 69 Charger, but as far as I can tell the electrical is about identical to my 69 Darts. (Sorry A Bodies only......just a Mopar lover in general)

Problem: I turn the key and the car fires.....I release the ignition from the "active starter" position and it kills.

When I turn the car over and it fires, and then turn the key 1/2 way back to "off" the car will idle/run all day.

I already replaced the ballast resistor, and happened to have a spare ignition in my parts pile. (spare ignition was used, and older than the hills)

Anybody out there know how to troubleshoot this issue?

I would greatly appreciate some information from someone that's been here before. Electrical issues add to my collection of gray hair!

Thanks,

Will
 
In the start position, cranking over, you should have 12 full volts to the coil. When the ignition switch is in the run position, you should have 9 or so volts to the coil. Like kursplat said, sounds like an ignition switch is the culprit. Rod
 
Here is how this works. The ignition system gets "run" voltage from the ignition switch (usually dark blue) out through the bulkhead connector to one side of the ballast. Somewhere in there that wire is branched off to feed the voltage regulator, and depending on year/ model, "other things". Electric choke, smog doo dads, etc.

THAT WIRE GOES DEAD during cranking.

Cranking ignition voltage is supplied by a SEPARATE contact and wire in the ignition switch, the resistor "bypass" circuit, usually brown. That wire comes from the ignition switch, out through the bulkhead connector, to the coil+ side of the ballast resistor.

Either the ignition switch is bad, there's a break in the blue wire, or the bulkhead connector has a bad contact

You can download service manuals and aftermarket wiring diagrams at MyMopar. Some of those over there came from the guys right here
 
Start by finding the blue "run" wire and follow it back to the bulkhead connector. Probe that with a meter/ lamp and see if it is "hot" with the key in run. If not, pull the ignition switch out of the dash and see if you have power there at the blue wire
 
Sounds like the switch, but always remember that theses cars are +50 so who knows what some one may have done to it over the years. Like said get the manual and be smart!
 
Definitely check the bulkhead connector like noted above, seen more wiring nightmares due to that piece of sh1!!. My guess is switch but very possibly that bulkhead connector could be issue too
 
Do what 67Dart273 wrote above.
That's the way to trace the problem.

Schematically, the circuits look like this.
upload_2019-9-21_9-32-29.png

The blue or blue with white RUN wires should be at system voltage when the key is in RUN.

If not, then trace back for a bad switch or other connection along the flow path.
upload_2019-9-21_9-40-22.png
 
67Dart273 said:
Here is how this works. The ignition system gets "run" voltage from the ignition switch (usually dark blue) out through the bulkhead connector to one side of the ballast. Somewhere in there that wire is branched off to feed the voltage regulator, and depending on year/ model, "other things". Electric choke, smog doo dads, etc.

THAT WIRE GOES DEAD during cranking.

Cranking ignition voltage is supplied by a SEPARATE contact and wire in the ignition switch, the resistor "bypass" circuit, usually brown. That wire comes from the ignition switch, out through the bulkhead connector, to the coil+ side of the ballast resistor.

Either the ignition switch is bad, there's a break in the blue wire, or the bulkhead connector has a bad contact

You can download service manuals and aftermarket wiring diagrams at MyMopar. Some of those over there came from the guys right here
Click to expand...


You Sir, were spot on!!!! Before ordering a new ignition, I chased some wires based on you incredible advice. I found a "challenge" at the bulkhead which has certainly been an issue with this car somewhere in the last 50 years. Correction....in the 29 years prior to my 21 years of ownership.

I bypassed the bulkhead with the wire you described above, and had the car running like new this afternoon.

Next challenge. Take a look at the photo of the bulk head plug. Now what? Solder the wires? Replace the bulkhead plug??

I am open to any and all suggestions.

Thanks everyone for your help here. It feels very good to figure something out. I couldn't have done it with out all of your help!!!!!!

General wire 1.jpg
 
Glad its running.
The question I still have is why did that connection get so hot.
The one below it with extra insulation is probably the alternator output, and that does not show external signs of overheating.
I'm not sure you're quite done troubleshooting.

Yes you can, and should replace the connector.
Get new seal for the connector from DMT. (goes inside).
Buy some Chrysler type male and female terminals. (also Packard 58 type)
Use a 'open barrel' type crimper.

The reason to replace the connector itself IMO is mostly to be sure the terminals catch securely in place.
When its melted, its that much less for the barb to catch.
 
Great

You can get terminals to repair the connector if the plastic shells are servicable. They are known generally as "Packard 56" but you must find the correct type to fit Mopar. Generally on the older Mopar, you want the female type which has the sides "rolled in" rather than a tab so to say folded "over the end."

This is "the" type or at least similar to what you want

5950x1b__83941-1423164709-380-500-jpg.jpg


The type below is what you do NOT want generally. These do fit some types of connectors, on the early 70's cars but not all

159912x5__31969.1360444193.168.168.jpg
 
Also at least read the MAD article which gives insight to the bulkhead connector and how it fails

Catalog
 
69DARTWANTED said:
Next challenge. Take a look at the photo of the bulk head plug. Now what? Solder the wires? Replace the bulkhead plug??

I am open to any and all suggestions.
Click to expand...
Describe your bypass/jumper.

Mattax said:
The question I still have is why did that connection get so hot.
The one below it with extra insulation is probably the alternator output, and that does not show external signs of overheating.
I'm not sure you're quite done troubleshooting.
Click to expand...

The wire that's overheated is the ignition wire, not the alternator feed (heavy black). Don't see how MAD's pitch is relevant. Look at the condition of the battery feed/charging terminal. That's the blue fusible link going into the connector. If its not showing signs of overheating, then its not been overloaded. Clean and lets find the cause of the ignition connection overheating.

The '69 Dodge Service manual shows the ignition feed (J2) goes first to the voltage regulator, then the ballast resistor (J2A).
First thing is to confirm if that's true.
upload_2019-9-27_12-22-36.png


It's possible that the cause was simply that the terminal connection was poorly made.
But keep in mind the normal current loads on the circuit.
There's only two items that draw power through J2; the alternator's rotor, and the ignition coil. Stock alternator and ignition this will be around 5 amps maximum.
Since its running, maybe do a quick check that the regulator isn't full fielding. You see this as overcharging on the ammeter and voltage that increases with rpm beyond the normal range. (above 14.9 V)

There may be other things to check, based on the initial description of the ignition switch working when in a halfway position. That's why I asked about the jumper.
 
upload_2019-9-27_12-47-7.png

Is this how its actually wired?
In theory it doesn't matter, but when troubleshooting, knowing the order of the connections is big help.
 
69DARTWANTED said:
Next challenge. Take a look at the photo of the bulk head plug. Now what? Solder the wires? Replace the bulkhead plug??
Click to expand...
In my case I drilled a hole thru there and jammed a 10ga wire thru the connector, and soldered both sides. I made the wire long enough so that I could cut a section out at some future date....... which in 18 years has not yet arrived.

general-wire-1-jpg.jpg
 
AJ/FormS said:
In my case I drilled a hole thru there and jammed a 10ga wire thru the connector, and soldered both sides. I made the wire long enough so that I could cut a section out at some future date....... which in 18 years has not yet arrived.

View attachment 1715399928
Click to expand...
You ran a 10 gage wire to your voltage regulator? :realcrazy:
:poke:
 
Hey I'm jamming 400 hp outta my 360 I think I can afford an 8inch 10ga jumper wire,lol. It's what I had,2 hours from home, sitting on the side of a heavily traveled hiway; and it holds it's shape. We don't have hiways in Manitoba like you Americans do; the shoulders are barely wide enough to fit the car; I was in a hurry to get moving.
 
Sooner or later this over the top help is going to dry up! You have to get the manuals and learn to understand these issues for the next generation!
 
It pains me to see patched and taped up stuff in Harnesses with questions of why do I have this issue! I understand budgets, but wiring in 50 year old cars that have been bastardized over the years should be priory one!
 
Thanks again guys. The Charger is now running like new. I really appreciate all of your input and advice. On to the next Mopar project!
 
1969383S said:
It pains me to see patched and taped up stuff in Harnesses with questions of why do I have this issue! I understand budgets, but wiring in 50 year old cars that have been bastardized over the years should be priory one!
Click to expand...
Are suggesting replacing the whole engine harness? That's definately a reasonable approach.
I did that with my barracuda's engine harness about 20 years ago.
Saved the original, and when there's been problems with the repop, I've use the original for reference and even for parts - mostly connectors.
 
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