72 Duster Resurrection

[Duster Captain]

i would check with Inline Tube, I bet they carry the correct distribution block for your app. your brake lines are 40 years old and very small to begin with. repop lines are cheap investment to your safety. I know, it ALL adds up!!

I also recommend if your going thru it and changing everything out for new lines included, use DOT 5 silicone based fluid, and mark your master cylinder as such so dot 3 doesnt get mixed in later on by accident. Dot 5 is silicone based. It doesnt collect moisture like dot 3 does eventually causing rust in the system, also dot 3 will strip paint off your cars paint job like paint stripper will if left on long enough. Dot 5 wont do that.

Well this project is turning into a massive brake system overhaul anyways, so why the hell not. New brake lines and upgrade to DOT 5 sound good to me.

I do not want to do a large amount of work that will need to be redone when I go to my 318V8. That is my main concern.

Moparmatt, when I go to a v8 capable 8.8 ford explorer rear end,will my brake lines hook up to it without modification? I know the ford 8.8 has disks already. Does that mean I will need an adjustable proportioning valve now so I can be ready for this?.....

 

[moparmat2000]

Buy the adjustable one now. Wilwood makes one with a adjustor knob on it. Not sure if your disc drum master cylinder will work on this. I will need to sort that out on my kids car as i am headed that direction with his. As far as brake lines hooking to the xploder rear, you will have to modify them. Xploder rear is metric fittings. I planned on using the stock rear rubber flex brake line for a 74 dart, and drilling and tapping into the xploder axle tube to mount it, then either cutting the xploder metal brake lines and flairing them with SAE ends to thread into the brake block, or bend new axle lines with metric on one end, SAE on the other.

What you can do to get some money back since your wanting to run the ford rear is this, buy the 74 duster disc brake brakeline kit but spec the rear lines for 72 A body 8.75 rear. If they wont let you do this , then spec the rear as 8.25. They will ask you if its manual or disc power brake. I believe the fittings are the same but they give you a little more tubing to thr master with power disc setup. You can always work the tubing a little but it gives you a little extra to work with. Install everything except the rear axle metal line since your using the existing 7.25. Just blow the existing rear axle line out real good, and swap out the wheel cylinders since they cheap, and do a quik n dirty rebuild of the rear brakes on the 7.25 rear. This way you can drive the car safely.

Since those rear brakes are the same from the backing plates out to fit an 8.25, and 8.75, you can strip them off the 7.25, and sell them complete with the backing plates out when you do the xploder swap, minus parking brake cable since you need that for the explorer rear. You can also sell the new unused rear axle lines that came in the kit. Then scrap the 7.25 unless you want to keep it for some reason.

At least thats what i would do. Run it with the 7.25 and rebuild the brakes enough to make it safe. Then enjoy the car with all new brakes, suspension etc, while rounding up all the pieces to do a V8 swap, so it can be a weekend swap. Then run it until you can get your xploder rear and have it ready for a weekend swap as well. Do this in modules so you can enjoy the car before each next big project.

 

[Duster Captain]

Buy the adjustable one now. Wilwood makes one with a adjustor knob on it. Not sure if your disc drum master cylinder will work on this. I will need to sort that out on my kids car as i am headed that direction with his. As far as brake lines hooking to the xploder rear, you will have to modify them. Xploder rear is metric fittings. I planned on using the stock rear rubber flex brake line for a 74 dart, and drilling and tapping into the xploder axle tube to mount it, then either cutting the xploder metal brake lines and flairing them with SAE ends to thread into the brake block, or bend new axle lines with metric on one end, SAE on the other.

What you can do to get some money back since your wanting to run the ford rear is this, buy the 74 duster disc brake brakeline kit but spec the rear lines for 72 A body 8.75 rear. If they wont let you do this , then spec the rear as 8.25. They will ask you if its manual or disc power brake. I believe the fittings are the same but they give you a little more tubing to thr master with power disc setup. You can always work the tubing a little but it gives you a little extra to work with. Install everything except the rear axle metal line since your using the existing 7.25. Just blow the existing rear axle line out real good, and swap out the wheel cylinders since they cheap, and do a quik n dirty rebuild of the rear brakes on the 7.25 rear. This way you can drive the car safely.

Since those rear brakes are the same from the backing plates out to fit an 8.25, and 8.75, you can strip them off the 7.25, and sell them complete with the backing plates out when you do the xploder swap, minus parking brake cable since you need that for the explorer rear. You can also sell the new unused rear axle lines that came in the kit. Then scrap the 7.25 unless you want to keep it for some reason.

At least thats what i would do. Run it with the 7.25 and rebuild the brakes enough to make it safe. Then enjoy the car with all new brakes, suspension etc, while rounding up all the pieces to do a V8 swap, so it can be a weekend swap. Then run it until you can get your xploder rear and have it ready for a weekend swap as well. Do this in modules so you can enjoy the car before each next big project.

That all sounds good to me.

I agree with doing the big jobs in pieces so I can get some driving in.

I plan on putting the 74 disks in the front, replacing the brake lines, refreshing the rear drums, and riding on that for a while.

I called inline tube and explained my situation. I said I am putting 74 front disks in my 72 all drum car and that I want to put an adjustable proportioning valve in so I can easily tune my brakes for eventual disk brakes on the back.

They recommended that I get the 72 drum brake line set and a proportioning valve. They said the drum brake line set would be good because it will match the brake line mounting points in my car and because I am putting an adjustable prop valve in, I will be able to tune the brake distribution how I want and be ready for disk in the back (on my explorer rear end).

Thoughts?

 

[moparmat2000]

Yeah that should work. I would ask them if the lines come out in the same spots on the frame as for discs in the front. They probably do.

 

[Duster Captain]

Had some time to work on the duster yesterday.

Started rebuilding the brakes and taking the original front suspension stuff off to get ready for putting my front disks on.

Driver side disks spindle. Marked it with "D" to keep everything straight. It's pretty grimey.

Old Caliper off. Lots of fun critters and gunk living in there.

Old caliper looks/feels pretty stuck and I dont feel like rebuilding, so replace it is.

Old vs new pads. Old pads actually looked decent but I'm putting fresh ones in anyways, they're cheap.

Old vs new caliper mounting clips. Does anyone know what that black rubber band is for? It came with the new hardware. For holding everything together during reassembly?

New(remanned) caliper loosely installed to check fit. These are M body calipers from autozone. They have a bigger piston than the A body ones and are a direct fit, so I should have more breaking force. Thanks to Moparmat for that tip!

Bonus time! This is the passenger disk rotor. What are these holes? They are not on the driver side rotor. Are these from balancing?...

Questions about brakes:

-Should I inspect and possibly replace the bearings? Spindles do spin freely now...
-Should I get the rotors turned? I dont feel and "lip" on them


On to front suspension:

Disconnected brake soft line and tie rod end. A new complete brake line set is in the Duster's future....

Removing upper control arm bolts. This was not as bad as I thought. Minimal bodily injury sustained at this point.

Upper control arm disconnected from frame.

I also disconnected the strut bar from the lower arm and frame and removed the LCA nut. The lower ball joint refused to break even with vigorous pickle fork beatings and a busted knuckle. I realized that I do not actually need to break the LBJ if I just pull the whole UCA/spindle/LCA assembly out as one piece, so I uttered a final curse at the LBJ and moved on.

As moparmat recommended, I plan on removing the torsion bar retaining ring and smacking the whole thing from the front to push the torsion bar back and allow me to take the LCA/Spindle/UCA assembly out.

It is late in the year so it gets dark very early and I ran out of light. I will be traveling this weekend but back on the project Sunday. Stay tuned.

 

[moparmat2000]

Get the rotors turned. Remove, clean, and repack inner and outer wheel bearings, install new dust seals. Put bearing back on same rotor you took them off of. Rollers and races have matching wear pattern by now. Rotors turned is like maybe $10-$15 per side. Id mark rotors L and R, and take the bearings out put em on a paper towel on work bench marked L and R get the rotors cut. The inside will be filled w shavings stuck to the grease in the hub from getting em cut, so clean all the grease out and wipe it good and clean before taking em to get turned, then wipe the inside of the hub out when you get em back. Repacking the bearings is cheap insurance. Dust seals are buck or 2 each. The holes are to correct an imbalance in the casting. Clean the old grease out of em with some cheap laquer thinner and a cheap 1" paintbrush look for chipping or spalling on the rollers and races. If theres none of that presesnt and just a nice smooth wear pattern pack the rollers full of fresh wheel bearing grease and reinstall em.

The black rubber bands are part of an anti rattle deal for the brake pads. I never use them, never had brake pads rattle either. If you want to use them, post front and top view pics of your caliper bracket without the caliper and pads installed and i can draw and repost how the rubber bands go on. But i have never used em, and never had problems

When reinstalling the rotors with fresh grease on the bearings you have to seat the bearings. Typically what i do is tighten the spindle nut fairly snug with a pair of slipjoint plyers while turning the rotor in normal direction of rotation. This seats the bearings. Then i back the nut off and make it hand tight with the slipjoint plyers then cotter pin it. Rotor should turn freely and not be real tight, or have any side to side play.

 

[Duster Captain]

Get the rotors turned. Remove, clean, and repack inner and outer wheel bearings, install new dust seals. Put bearing back on same rotor you took them off of. Rollers and races have matching wear pattern by now. Rotors turned is like maybe $10-$15 per side. Id mark rotors L and R, and take the bearings out put em on a paper towel on work bench marked L and R get the rotors cut. The inside will be filled w shavings stuck to the grease in the hub from getting em cut, so clean all the grease out and wipe it good and clesn before taking em to get turned, then wipe the inside of the hub out when you get em back. Repacking the bearings is cheap insurance. Dust seals are buck or 2 each. The holes are to correct an imbalance in the casting.

The black rubber bands are part of an anti rattle deal for the brake pads. I never use them, never had brake pads rattle either.

When reinstalling the rotors with freash grease on the bearings you have to seat the bearings. Typically what i do is tighten the spindle nut fairly snug with a pair of slipjoint plyers while turning the rotor in normal direction of rotation. This seats the bearings. Then i back the nut off and make it hand tight with the slipjoint plyers then cotter pin it. Rotor should turn freely and not be real tight, or have any side to side play.

I had a feeling you would say that. Guess the wheels/brakes are a good place to take no shortcuts.

I'll probably toss the anti rattle thing too.

Just curious, why re-use the actual bearings? Would fresh rollers just not sit right in the worn path from the existing rollers?

 

[moparmat2000]

Being its hardened steel, the wear on the races on the hub against smooth new rollers could cause the rollers to slide instead of roll, then you got a whole new set of problems. Or at the very least you will get premature wear on the new ones. If you have to change any of the bearings, the new one comes with a new outer race. You should knock the old outer race out of the hub for the bearing your replacing, and press in the new outer race that comes with the new bearing. Clean em up and inspect. If theres chipping or spalling you will know it. The rollers wont be smooth and shiny with small wear lines in them.

 

[moparmat2000]

So if you decide on new bearings, that is your call if they are iffy looking when you clean and inspect them, or you just feel better with new ones. If you do this, Replace the outer races in the hubs too.

The only time you wouldent do that, is if you buy a new rotor, and new bearings, because the new rotor already has races pressed in, and neither the bearings or the races have and wear patterns on them yet.

Just an FYI, I have 160K on my 94 chevy pickup. I have owned it since new. Every time it needs a front brake job, i clean and repack the inner and outer wheel bearings. They look fine every time w usual wear pattern, i stick em right back in. Truck still has the OEM Timkins it came with 24 years ago. You would be surprised. Some of that older stuff is made better than the new auto parts store replacement.

You might could take the part numbers off your old bearings if replacing them, and go to a bearing supply store, and get the exact same part number replacements.

 

[Duster Captain]

Being its hardened steel, the wear on the races on the hub against smooth new rollers could cause the rollers to slide instead of roll, then you got a whole new set of problems. Or at the very least you will get premature wear on the new ones. If you have to change any of the bearings, the new one comes with a new outer race. You should knock the old outer race out of the hub for the bearing your replacing, and press in the new outer race that comes with the new bearing. Clean em up and inspect. If theres chipping or spalling you will know it. The rollers wont be smooth and shiny with small wear lines in them.

Makes sense to me.

I will break everything down, clean and inspect, and then make a call on new bearings based on the condition. I will post pics.

 

[moparmat2000]

Did you go rockauto on your brake stuff? You know to put a spray anti squeal on the metal backs of the pads on assembly right?

BTW i agree on what your doing first. Make it safe with good suspension, brakes, and alignment. Then it will be fun to drive while you plan and save for its next mod. The slanty will run for damn near forever. You may want to do your V8 last after putting an explorer rear in there with some sporting gears, some nice wheels and tires and a bit of bodywork. Maybe you should try some bodywork yourself. You may have a hidden talent just waiting to get out.

 

[Duster Captain]

Did you go rockauto on your brake stuff? You know to put a spray anti squeal on the metal backs of the pads on assembly right?

Got the calipers and pads from autozone, they were the same price as rock auto and I figure the core return is easier with a store.

I did not know about anti-squeal on the pad backs. Is this just an old mopar thing or a general disk brake thing? I have done the disk brakes on my daily(00 isuzu rodeo) many times and never used anti squeal and never had problems. But that is a more modern car, so maybe they just resist brake squeal by design better than the old days....

BTW i agree on what your doing first. Make it safe with good suspension, brakes, and alignment. Then it will be fun to drive while you plan and save for its next mod. The slanty will run for damn near forever. You may want to do your V8 last after putting an explorer rear in there with some sporting gears, some nice wheels and tires and a bit of bodywork.

Yep the plan is brakes, suspension, and alignment then some cruising while I fix engine/electrical bugs. Everyone tells me the /6 is very reliable, wish I could just keep it. But the v8 benefits are too strong to ignore...

Maybe you should try some bodywork yourself. You may have a hidden talent just waiting to get out.

I do plan on trying my hand at the bodywork. Actually the local guy I bought the disk brakes off said a local community college teaches an auto body/paint class for around $400. They teach you how to do the work properly and let you bring in your car to paint so you can use the nice paint guns and booths. Sounds like a good deal to me.

I ordered a complete set of ball joints and tie rod ends made by XRF off ebay.

I can find XRF ball joints everywhere online, but I just can not find the ones for an A body. I cant find a XRF K772 on rock auto or ebay. Do you have a part number for the ball joint kit you bought?

Also, the other day I realized I do have a power steering pump in the Duster (duh), so I have power steering. What does this change for my front end rebuild? I know you said the Pittman arm has a different spline count for power steering. Anything else?

 

[moparmat2000]

General brake pad thing. I prefer it in a spray can. You spray the metal backs of the pads, let em tack up and install em.

I like the community college idea. That sounds great, and a paint booth too. Core returns yep easier w store. Plus same price its all good.

I would do the V8 last, or next to last with body and paint being last so you dont have to lift off a nicely painted hood. I remember doing a V8 swap on a 71 C/10 i had. I rebuilt a 350, and a muncie M21 trans, and made a list of everything i needed to have for the swap right down to a correct length. i pressed new u joints in. Once i was sure i had everything i needed and rebuilt, i rented a cherry picker over the weekend and on a cold assed december friday night i drove the truck into my dads garage with the inline six, and sunday afternoon drove it out w a V8 in it, monday i returned the cherry picker.

I got my XRF K772 uppers off ebay, along with the XRF K781, and 783 lower ball joints. They came in the mail last week along w inner and outer tie rod ends.

 

[moparmat2000]

I just checked ebay, those parts arent there anymore. Wow thats wierd. I swear i got a whole set minus pitman and idler arms from a seller called under my car. I dunno why they are not there anymore heres the screen shot of my purchases last week.

Theres another place called www.mibearings.com they have all the XRF parts minus one lower ball joint.

Remember you will need to order upper, and lower and outer tie rod ends for 74 duster

Inner tie rod ends, pitman arm, and idler arm for 72 duster

 

[moparmat2000]

I just checked the sellers listings on ebay, he isnt offering them anymore. If i had to guess, he prob got a good F@@King on the sale. He offered a partial refund on shipping for $46 and only charged me $20 to ship. Looks like nobody else on there is selling thrm either. Bad for you, good for me. I wont sell the ones i have now lol. I can send him a message thru ebay and ask him what happened.

You may be able to go thru mibearings and get most of what you need, and source that one lower ball joint from somebody else. I know the XRF idler arm is on closeout for $11.20 at rock auto. Mibearings was i think the cheapest on the pitman arm.

 

[Duster Captain]

Im still here and "working" on the duster. By working I mean punishing my credit card.

I have all the main parts ordered to do the entire brake and front suspension all the way:

-new brake line set from Inline tube
-new "refurbished" front disk/rear drum master cylinder
-Wilwood adjustable proportioning valve
-new ball joints, control arm bushings, tie rod ends, tie rod sleeve, idler arm, pittman arm, etc.
-new KYB shocks
-new wheel cylinders, shoes, and spring rebuild kit for rear drums
-misc bits and pieces

I will post some more pictures when parts start coming in. Then I can get set up for a serious day of wrenching.

 

[moparmat2000]

I got an answer on the suspension parts.

 

[Duster Captain]

I got an answer on the suspension parts.

View attachment 1715099420

Thanks for checking with that seller.

I ended up calling in to MI Bearing and placing my order. They actually did not have the XRF upper ball joints (K772) or the XRF pittman arm. They said they directly contacted XRF and they did not have any available. So I got an MAS pittman arm and MOOG upper ball joints from rock auto. You got to make do with what you can find.

Question, some of the 74 control arms I am using have been completely stripped and powder coated by the previous owner:

Is the powder coating on the bushing holes and ball joint tapered holes going to interfere with the new bushings and ball joints? Power coating has some thickness to it.....should I try and sand off the coating in these areas?

 

[moparmat2000]

It prob will. The ball joints are threaded. They use a special 4 point socket to thread em in and out. Not sure how the powder coating will affect this. Most people changing out uppers will put 2 tack welds minimum, 4 tack welds maximum tacking the ball joint to the upper arm at the nut flats on the ball joint where it meets the edge of the threaded flange on the arm.

 

[KosmicKuda]

I definitely would try to sand as much of the powder coating out of the "threaded" section. Having done a fair amount if powder coating I would have protected the threads before applying the powder.

I wouldn't exactly call them threads, more like a suggestion of a spiral groove. Be extremely careful "threading" them in as they are easy to cross thread. Spot welding is a fix but that would kind of destroy the finish.

Oh, and I would not consider putting those rotors on without having them turned after all the work and money you've put into this.

 

[Duster Captain]

It prob will. The ball joints are threaded. They use a special 4 point socket to thread em in and out. Not sure how the powder coating will affect this. Most people changing out uppers will put 2 tack welds minimum, 4 tack welds maximum tacking the ball joint to the upper arm at the nut flats on the ball joint where it meets the edge of the threaded flange on the arm.

I definitely would try to sand as much of the powder coating out of the "threaded" section. Having done a fair amount if powder coating I would have protected the threads before applying the powder.

I wouldn't exactly call them threads, more like a suggestion of a spiral groove. Be extremely careful "threading" them in as they are easy to cross thread. Spot welding is a fix but that would kind of destroy the finish.

Oh, and I would not consider putting those rotors on without having them turned after all the work and money you've put into this.

hmmmm

Ok, I see how they thread into the upper control arms. That is quite difference than the Chevy world of rivets or bolts on ball joints.

Guess I will need to clean out the threads on the UCA's and the tapered holes on the LCA's. Small wire wheel? Sandblast? Will I need the special ball joint "socket" to install my new ball joints? I dont have a problem welding, but is it necessary if I feel good about the threads?

What about the holes that the actual control arm bushings go in? Im thinking the powder will interfere with new steel bushing sleeves getting pressed in...

I do plan on getting the rotors turned.

 

[moparmat2000]

I have seen others on here that have improvised on the upper joint socket. I think you can get em cheap enough though. You may want to get one if you plan on doing this to your dart too, you can always resell it when done. If the joint threads in nice and tight a tack weld is probably unnecessary.

Are you using the lower arms that were powdercoated? Are the tapered holes full of powdercoat? If so, probably tape off the rest of the arm, and sandblast inside the taper to clean it out.

 

[moparmat2000]

Its a shame he didnt powdercoat both upper arms.

 

[Duster Captain]

I have seen others on here that have improvised on the upper joint socket. I think you can get em cheap enough though. You may want to get one if you plan on doing this to your dart too, you can always resell it when done.

I could just buy the special socket, they're not too much, but all I need to do is install new ball joints in empty UCA's. I will not need to ever remove an old UBJ during this whole project, so I may be able to get by...

If the joint threads in nice and tight a tack weld is probably unnecessary.

I hope so, I would prefer not to mess up the powder coat. We'll see.

Are you using the lower arms that were powdercoated? Are the tapered holes full of powdercoat? If so, probably tape off the rest of the arm, and sandblast inside the taper to clean it out.

Yep I think they are nice and powdercoated in the holes. Not sure what the guy was thinking on that. Sandblast is what I was thinking too.

Its a shame he didnt powdercoat both upper arms.

Agreed. And the powder coat job on the rest of the stuff looks nice. Odd that he would not get it all done at once. Maybe thats the exact moment he ran out of time/money/motivation on his project.

 

[KosmicKuda]

Yeah the coating has to go in the lower tapered holes. I'd probably carefully use a round or semi round file. There are powder coat dissolvers out there. Never tried them but I think Eastwood may carry it.
You should be able to find a local powder coaster in your area and have the other one done. Or sent it off to Leanna at Phoenix Powder In TN. (She's a member and would NOT coat the holes.) Or clean and paint.
Last time I installed UBJ's I temporarily installed the UCA's in the subframe before carefully threaded them in and tightening with the big socket and a cheater pipe on the breaker bar. If done correctly they are perfectly fine without welding. And, they are somewhat fail safe because if the threads give out the upper arm is still captivated. Chrysler built many millions of cars and they didn't show up on recall lists.
Many have been ruined by auto machine shops who throw them in a hydraulic press and drive them out thereby ruining them. That is a case where spot welding would work to save the parts.