72 Duster's new Filter location

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Dan B.

Dan B.

78 and still going.
Joined
Jan 14, 2017
Messages
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Location
Cold Spring, MN
I'm finally getting around to relocating my oil filter. Tired of the problems existing with the 90 degree location. Installing a Milodon 21566 oil adapter in the original filter location and a Canton DER-35729 Filter mount up front. I found an excellent place right next to my power steering pump. Using the existing bolt holes on the front of the head it was as easy as bolting on the bracket using two 3/8-16 button head bolts, attach the filter mount and now i'll make up some braided hoses and I should be good to go. To change oil all I have to do is bend over the grill, place an empty container under the filter and unscrew.

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SSG_Karg said:
Those are gonna be some long oil lines. Wouldn’t passenger side be a little better?
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There was absolutely no room anywhere under the pass. side. Believe me I looked. I took my filter set-up under the car and tried the rails and everywhere else and I didn't want to mount it in a wheel well. I read a lot about running hoses five feet and made several phone calls to a couple pro-mod friends and they said there should be no problems with maintaining good oil pressure. I figured they knew a whole lot more about these things than I did so I decided to go for it. I'm putting an oil pressure and oil temp. gauge to monitor it under the hood. The ratio I have seen mentioned is that 10 ft. of hose has the same restriction as one sharp 90°
 
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It's not the flow restriction, it's the length of hose. There will be a fair amount of oil in there when you drain for change, or if it drains back it will take that much longer to fill those looooooooooooooooooong hoses

THERE IS NO CHANCE you could get me to run a setup that far away.

What is "in the way" over in the other front corner?

(Mount it to the body, not the engine)
 
I don't think the OP's long lines will drain out much, if at all, with a filter change since their ends are located up higher than the old filter location. And with a nice vertical oil filter mounting, you can pre-fill the filter to the brim and cut down any fill time.

I've run 3-4' hoses for years in my rally engines with no issues. Use 1/2" ID lines and calculations with standard flow rates show that you shouldn't get any more than about 1 psi drop. That is less pressure drop than in the passages and bends inside the block in the standard oil passages.

BTW, OP, if your line get any where close to the exhaust, wrap them in reflective foil to keep the heat out. Also, what line do you plan to use? I'd strongly recommend not to use stainless braided over rubber lines; you can never inspect the rubber under the braid and I've seen too much of that type of fuel line have tiny leaks from pinholes in the rubber. I also am leery of teflon lines for this particular use only because of possibly being too near to the exhaust. There is some multi-layered, fabric covered and reinforced oil lines that you can get from NAPA that is very durable as oil cooler lines.
 
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nm9stheham said:
I don't think the OP's long lines will drain out much, if at all, with a filter change since their ends are located up higher than the old filter location. And with a nice vertical oil filter mounting, you can pre-fill the filter to the brim and cut down any fill time.

I've run 3-4' hoses for years in my rally engines with no issues. Use 1/2" ID lines and calculations with standard flow rates show that you shouldn't get any more than about 1 psi drop. That is less pressure drop than in the passages and bends inside the block in the standard oil passages.

BTW, OP, if your line get any where close to the exhaust, wrap them in reflective foil to keep the heat out. Also, what line do you plan to use? I'd strongly recommend not to use stainless braided over rubber lines; you can never inspect the rubber under the braid and I've seen too much of that type of fuel line have tiny leaks from pinholes in the rubber. I also am leery of teflon lines for this particular use only because of possibly being too near to the exhaust. There is some multi-layered, fabric covered and reinforced oil lines that you can get from NAPA that is very durable as oil cooler lines.
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Thanks NM9's for the reply... Your comment about the hose has given me pause to do more research on the type of hose to use. I have heard pro and con on most of them. The route I plan on taking the oil lines is out of the way of most of the heat except when I near the headers, I was going to place a heat shield between the lines and the header and in addition place one of those "socks" they place over spark plugs... I was thinking of using -10 oil line and no 90's and I have a high output oil pump. With the oil filter up front it should help dissipate the heat as it will be right behind the dual fans. It regard to the distance, there are many out there who have placed oil coolers on their oil lines in addition to their remote filters. In that instance the oil had a lot further to go than what I plan on doing, however, every engine reacts differently depending on build. I would like to hear from some of those who have placed their oil filter more than two feet away from the original oil filter location and what was their experience.
 
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Ok, I emailed WIX filter Tech. and to my surprise the tech. telephoned me back within ten min. (he said he called me because it would be hard to explain everything and he would not have been able to answer any of my questions as they arose) He suggested that I not move the filter any more than a foot and a half. He then suggested that I try a #51348 WIX filter. The #51515 filter I was using is 3.661" dia. The #51348 filter is 2.921" dia. The #51515 filter 5.197 long. The #51348 filter is 3.404" long. So, the #51348 is approx. 3/4" smaller in diameter and 1.973" shorter. He believes that if I leave the 90 deg. filter adapter off and install the oil filter plate and the #51348 filter that I will have the room I need to remove the filter at oil change time. He stated that Mopars and Ford have a by pass in the filters where Chevys. have it in the pump. If oil can't circulate for some reason in the Cheys. the by pass opens up and by passes the filter and just circulates in the block and you still have good oil pressure. With the Mopars/Fords that would be a problem. With the Mopars/Fords you wouldn't know that oil was not circulating because the oil pressure would not drop and you would be getting no oil circulating in the engine...... With that being said, I will purchase a #51348 WIX filter and see if I can put it in place without the need of a remote oil filter, if not then i'll try it with the 90 deg. adapter and if neither work I already have the remote filter adapters and i'll find someplace within that foot and a half he mentioned. I would suggest that if anyone has questions concerning relocating their oil filter, email WIX, they will certainly answer all questions. (I tried emailing Fram, Jegs and Summit with no results).
 
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I think the Wix guy was doing a CYA thing, or just does not have enough experience with non-standard filter mounts and external oil coolers. Did he give you are reason or give you a pressure drop numbers to work with? I've gone through this all and come up with the pressure drop numbers... with 1/2" ID lines, you would be hard pressed to get more than 1 psi drop. You'll get more drop in a hard 90 with the stock internal oil passage bores. And the point of lines to oil coolers being long is just another indicator of it being OK. I've done this over and over and have not had any pressure drop that ever showed up on a gauge.

And, the large remote filter with the large filter will provide cooling of the oil. Putting the small filter under the headers won't cool the oil and might possible add heat to the oil, especially with the black Wix filter casing absorbing radiant heat.

But ether way, I hope you get the results you want.
 
nm9stheham said:
I think the Wix guy was doing a CYA thing, or just does not have enough experience with non-standard filter mounts and external oil coolers. Did he give you are reason or give you a pressure drop numbers to work with? I've gone through this all and come up with the pressure drop numbers... with 1/2" ID lines, you would be hard pressed to get more than 1 psi drop. You'll get more drop in a hard 90 with the stock internal oil passage bores. And the point of lines to oil coolers being long is just another indicator of it being OK. I've done this over and over and have not had any pressure drop that ever showed up on a gauge.

And, the large remote filter with the large filter will provide cooling of the oil. Putting the small filter under the headers won't cool the oil and might possible add heat to the oil, especially with the black Wix filter casing absorbing radiant heat.

But ether way, I hope you get the results you want.
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Nm9, tnx again for your input. I lean in your direction. No he didn't offer me any numbers other than to say that if there wasn't enough oil reaching the oil filter I may not find out in time because the oil pressure would stay up because of where the pressure gauge picks up. (?). If I try out the remote first I want to make sure I have a pressure gauge on the remote oil mount. But what side? coming in or going out?
 
Just contacted a shirt tail relative. He runs a Turbo VW that runs in the high 7's. Also runs one at the salt flats. He told me that he runs a remote oil filter and an oil cooler on all his race cars with no problems. While he does not have a Mopar I would think an engine is an engine, especially a VW that runs as hard as that.... Meanwhile i'm still gathering information... I've got some emails out to a couple pro-mod guys that all run remote filters.
 
Dan B. said:
No he didn't offer me any numbers other than to say that if there wasn't enough oil reaching the oil filter I may not find out in time because the oil pressure would stay up because of where the pressure gauge picks up. (?). If I try out the remote first I want to make sure I have a pressure gauge on the remote oil mount. But what side? coming in or going out?
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What does that statement from the Wix guy mean? LOL Maybe he means it would take too long for engine pressure to get up due the line being long? That may make sense, and may be what Del is worried about.
You have 2 things working for you:
- The anti drain back valve in the filter will keep most of the oil in the system beyond the filter up to the passenger side gallery.
- That also tends to keep the oil in the lines up to the filter when sitting.

For grins, I computed the volume in one 5' long 1/2" ID oil line; it works out the about 0.2 gallons. With typical oil pump pumping around 1.5-2 GPM at low RPM''s it could take as much as 5-7 seconds to completely fill that line if it was totally empty. I would not expect the input line to really drain out all that much with a filter with an anti-drainback valves. But I put it out there for you consider. If it worries you, then prime the engine oiling system in-car after the mod to pre-fill that line

I've always used something like the PH8A or WIX 51515 filters that have anti-drainback valves in them, and never have seen slow oil pressure build up. The current 340 shows almost instant oil pressure with 3' lines to and from the remote filter mount on the front end of the passenger side frame rail. That is a lower mount location than you are thinking of and so may help keep the oil in the filter input line. The oil pump was new at the recent rebuild. All my remote installations are in cases where the pumps have been renewed and well maintained. That is probably true for a lot of racers.

BTW, the standard oil pressure sensor location is at the output of the filter; it tees off right at where the oil feeds into the engine's main feed passage, which is the passenger side oil gallery. So I really don't see any need to put an extra gauge in; that location is the worst case for seeing time to real internal oil pressure.

FWIW: I take all large corporation tech line advice with a grain of salt; unless they can cite exact numbers, I tend to not accept it crate blanche. That is because:
- They perceive a larger liability for themselves than a small shop. I'll take advice far quicker from an experienced racer or a reputable shop operator.
- When you ask a question like this to a large tech support person, you put them on the spot. They will tend to give a conservative answer to protect themselves.
- Who knows how much real engine experience this guy has? It is kind of like the parts store counter jockeys; some of them dispense a lot of jargon and stuff they pick up rather than actually working on stuff. I'd trust the answers from the experienced builders and racers who use these things far, far more.
 
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