727 issues and questions

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trader_reed

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OK Hi, I'm new to this forum I spend most of my on old Jeep forums.

I've got a 71 Dodge Winnebago with 318 Magnum 727 NP207 transfer case, Yes it's a 4X4 camper with a lift kit and 33" tires. It's great for camping on the beach. But now when it shifts between gears say 2nd and 3rd the engine will race like it's not in gear, sometimes I let off the gas to lower the rpm and sometimes I slide the shifter to N then back to D till I can feel it engage and it's fine while in third. I'm guessing the clutch bands going bad. The fluid level is OK. Also today on my way home I was stopped to pull into my street and when I got on the gas to pull up my road it was slipping but when I let off the gas it work fine again. My question is could it be the shifter linkage? Or does it sound like the clutches.

winnebago063.jpg


Matt
 
Wow, now that's something you don't see everyday!

To your questions, I'll give you the elements in use for each gear that way you can determine which one(s) are slipping.

manual low - low reverse (rear) band and rear clutch
low (starting off in drive) - rear clutch and over running clutch (free wheels on coast)

2nd or kick down from drive - front band and rear clutch

drive - front clutch and rear clutch

reverse - front clutch and low reverse band

Armed with this information you can determine by when the trans slips what element(s) are in use at that point. For instance if your trans slips in 2nd but not low than the rear clutch is good and the front band is slipping. If it slips in all 3 forward speeds but not in reverse than you know the front clutch and rear band are ok, it's the rear clutches that are slipping.

BTW you did check the fluid level and condition right? Has it ever been serviced?
 
I checked the fluid with the trans hot (10 mile drive) running in neutral, That's correct for this trans right?

Matt
 
Matt your checking the fluid right and no it dosen't sound like any problem with the shifter linkage. One way to tell if the clutches/bands are burned up is to smell the fluid (if it hasn't been changed recently). If it smells burned that's a good sign the clutches and/or bands are toast.

The only other thing that can cause a runaway condition between shifts is an improperly adjusted throttle linkage or as everybody calls it the kickdown/passing gear linkage. The way to adjust it is with the engine off hold the carb wide open and adjust the trans. throttle linkage so it is at maximum.
 
Fluid smells fine, can you give me the kickdown linkage for id10t's. I'm guessing at WOT the linkage should be pushing some sort of level down to lower the gear. Is it possible to disconnect the linkage just to see if it's causing my problem? If I drop the tranny pan would I see evidence of worn out clutches and bands? Whats funny is it pulls good once it's in gear with no slippage.
 
It's typical that if the seals are old, hard and worn on the clutch apply pistons that they will slip when being applied but once they are applied all is fine.

Misadjusted throttle pressure linkage will cause very early sluggish shifts of very late hard shifts. You didn't mention this as a condition so I didn't mention it either.
 
NOW THATS A COOL WINNY!!!! I would love to hear all the juicy details of this rig as I havn't ever heard of one like that before, I am GREEN. Which jeep boards do you frequent, I am big into ORC myself, awsome site.

Fishy, your description of setting the kick down isn't the same as the service manual I have, where did you get that info from? Makes me wonder if I havn't got mine set wrong now and that may explain why I can't get the damn thing to down shift in drive when I mash the gas, and as Jones said I also have a problem with late harsh shifts into 3rd. I am going to go and try your method right now. I will have to come back and kiss your a$$ if that solves my problem, LOL. Thanks a trillion!!! :thumbup:
 
trader_reed said:
Fluid smells fine, can you give me the kickdown linkage for id10t's. I'm guessing at WOT the linkage should be pushing some sort of level down to lower the gear. Is it possible to disconnect the linkage just to see if it's causing my problem? If I drop the tranny pan would I see evidence of worn out clutches and bands? Whats funny is it pulls good once it's in gear with no slippage.

Yes when you press the accellerator the linkage pushes the throttle pressure (kickdown) linkage. When your accellerator is at WOT the throttle pressure linkage should be pushed all the way back. Don't disconnect it or you'll have more slippage. And yes if you drop the pan you could see evidence of burned clutch or band material. As Guitar J said once the clutches are applied it will pull fine. It's just getting them to engage that's the problem.
 
krabysniper said:
Fishy, your description of setting the kick down isn't the same as the service manual I have, where did you get that info from? Makes me wonder if I havn't got mine set wrong now and that may explain why I can't get the damn thing to down shift in drive when I mash the gas, and as Jones said I also have a problem with late harsh shifts into 3rd. I am going to go and try your method right now. I will have to come back and kiss your a$$ if that solves my problem, LOL. Thanks a trillion!!! :thumbup:
To be honest I don't remember where I learned that from. I've been doing them that way ever since I rebuilt my first trans in 1980. I think I learned it from my auto instructor. I'm not the best writer so hopefully I described it right. I have a service manual for my 68 Cuda I'll have to dig it out and see how they describe it.
 
krabysniper,

It a 1971 D-20 Winnebago built on a Dodge chassie. The original 318-3 was removed and replaced with a 318 Magnum w/727 auto and a NP207 transfer case. The original I-beam front axle was removed and replaced with a Dana 60 and the rear was replaced with a single rear wheel Dana 70. New leafsprings, and 33" mud tires. Inside was totally gutted and walls, floor, roof, electrical, carpet, plumbing where replaced. It has dual exhaust with 3' glass packs (very loud). It's kind of like a monster truck and a house had a baby.
I spend time on g503.com and thecj2apage.com My other baby is a 1948 Willys CJ2A.

It's tough to say it the shifting was sluggish or hard, imagine driving your house around. When I get some time I'll do some trouble shooting. I'm thinking it's the kick down..

winnebago062.jpg


new3.jpg
 
Fishy, THAT WAS THE TICKET. WOOO HOOO! Thank you thank you thank you ten thousand times over. Your description was close enough for me to know what ya meant after having to mess with it all summer ( I have literally pulled the pan and valve body no less than six times in the last few months trying to figure it out and make sure I didn't screw something up with the valve baddy assembly and adjustments. I am really really fast at it I can have the valve body completely out in about 15 minutes after lifting it with the hoist:headbang: )

Buddy of mine had argued with me about it (he has built many many auto's) when we originally set-it up and had said he thought that it should be adjusted the way you described, I didn't listen because my manual describes it as holding the lever on the tranny in the forward position and adjusting the slide bar linkage at the carb so that there was no slack in it in the closed throttle position. Or something to that effect, I will drag the book home from the shop and post what it says more accuratly, cause this just may help others in the future, LOL.

I don't have a stock 904, mine is rather , uhmmmmmm, seriously altered, I did a low and second gear swap, shift kit'ed and complete re-build and have been trying to work the bugs out all summer. It's my first auto tranny (I am old school row thru the gears and just don't quite have the knack with the auto yet. It still dosn't want to shift up into second gear until 20-21 mph at part throttle and 3rd is way up at around 37 mph at part throttle, but at least now if I stand on it in drive at 35-55 mph it shifts down to second which I hadn't been able to get it to do. Won't kick down at anything above 56 mph (is that bad?) and I cant get it to kick down from second to first unless I am doing like 16-17 mph which is like right next to where it down shifts to first on it's own when just slowing down. TCI Trans Scat kit for the rebuild and valve body and I am pretty sure I set it up for heavy duty use ( I am planning to be able to pull a small travel trailer with it) and have it also set up for full manual shifting so that if (not that I would) I wanted to pull it down to first manually, at say 60 mph, it will go!

I just luv the cool factor of cruising along at 30 mph and having some youngin coming along in his coffe can exhausted ricer pulling up next to me and hammering on it (and because they all have watched that stupid "The Fast and The Furious" they think that they have a fast car) and all I do is lean my big toe on the throttle and she kicks down on her own and screams. Always draws big dumfounded grins when the old guy with the old car does that to them, especially my semi sleeper lookin Dart. I hated having to reach up to the dang column shift and manually pulling it down to do that (even though I have it set up to do it manually if I wanted, LOL. Thats for racing though.)

Trader-reed, I am terribly sorry to have jacked your thread. Again, that is an outstanding rig man, I LIKE IT! Wish I had the money to build me one. Thanks for the info on it and the pics. Where you at, or more acuratly where was that beach pic at? Fl? Oh, and who's the hot chick on the beach? LOL

I am just guessing you built it I take it? Was it a difficult swap/conversion? Definatly keep us posted on what you find out. Btw, if ya havn't check out the bulletin boards at ORC, here is a link to their main bbs index ORC Index, they just started up a new forum for RV's campers and stuff, but it really hasn't taken off yet (sometimes takes awhile for a new forum to start rolling) but you may find the dodge forum to suit you and I am sure thet if you post about your willys in some of the jeep boards you'd find others who are into them. And the jeep short wheelbase forum rocks and is one of the most active forums I have ever read.
 
trader_reed said:
Also today on my way home I was stopped to pull into my street and when I got on the gas to pull up my road it was slipping but when I let off the gas it work fine again.


When it slips shifting from 2nd to 3rd I'd definitely be looking at the throttle pressure adjustment. But if it's throttle pressure it would/should be accompanied by very early shift points. When it slips on take off from a dead stop, I'd definitely rule out throttle pressure adjustment. But then again you could have more than one problem.
 
FIXED !!!!

It was the throttle kickdown linkage, the spring was weak letting the linkage rattle around and stick in the somewhat "engaged" position. I replaced the spring and lubed the linkage very well and haven't had a problem yet.

Oh the beach is Nauset beach in Orleans Ma. (Cape Cod) The Hot chick is my wife :lol: and one of my twin boys.

The conversion is somewhat easy, swapping front axles is not to bad you just need to get a Dana 60 and Dana 70 axles from a Dodge 1 ton SRW truck. There is LOTS of room under it, I can almost sit indian style under it. Just your basic wrenching, no hard wiring or fabrication. The only thing I made was a crossmember to hold the weight of the NP208 transfer case and a driveshaft shop made me two new driveshafts.

Thanks for the help, you guys got a great fourm here. I knew you hardcore mopar boys would know, On the Winnie forum they talk about airfresheners and blue juice.
 
Exxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxcellent.

Dude, I so want any and every detail I can get because that really has me wanting one just like it. If and when ya got time I would love to have some views of the crossmember ya made, lengths of the driveshafts, and any other shots of the underside that ya think might help for a person to copy you ( Imitation, greatest form of compliment eh?)

Very glad to hear ya got it figured out

And from what I can see of her, you a lucky dog :sign2:
 
Here are some good photos, if they take up to much space let me know.

rear.jpg


DSCN2126.jpg

motor2.jpg


shifter.jpg


Now that's a real floor shifter, It removes in a second after shifting and a plate covers the hole.
 
Glad you got it fixed, it must have been holding enough pressure to not allow it to downshift into first. Weird things happen. It's a cool vehicle though, and you did a great job on it.
 
Well I just got back from offroading on the beach in my Winnebago and it's shifted and drove perfect. I want to thank everyone who helped once again, You guys are good.
I'll keep this site in my favorites just in case I need more help.

Matt
 
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